What is a True - Naga / Bhut / Bih ?

[POTAWIE]

Of course breeding changes the genetic code, and as I said Usually you need new genes to be considered a new variety, but there is also spontaneous mutations or 'sports'.

 

[MrArboc]

Of course breeding changes the genetic code, and as I said Usually you need new genes to be considered a new variety, but there is also spontaneous mutations or 'sports'.

...and selective breeding over many generations which is the most common way, both with plants and animals.

 

[POTAWIE]

...and selective breeding over many generations which is the most common way, both with plants and animals.

Maybe over many, many years but what about heirloom varieties that have been grown in different areas for many years. They may change somewhat but don't become new varieties even though they are often selectively bred. The dorset naga was denied PVP because it couldn't be considered a new variety since no new genes were introduced, only selective breeding.
I would think that selective breeding would be much different in the animal kingdom where you need to choose two animals, and therefore new genes are introduced

 

[MrArboc]

The dorset naga was denied PVP because it couldn't be considered a new variety since no new genes were introduced, only selective breeding.

Selective breeding over what - 5 generations? Of course they where denied. Even the most dedicated chilehead here on THP cant tell them apart from Morich if they don't know beforehand what they are looking at. "Heirloom" varieties are exactly what I'm talking about - varieties that has been selectively bred for decades if not centuries. The fact that they are grown all over the world now does not change that. Most of the varieties we grow are in fact "heirloom" even though we don't call them that.

Look at dogs, take the Shepherd Dogs for example. You have the german shepherd, the white (german) shepherd and the belgian shepherd which is in fact considered to be four different breeds now. They all originate from the same group of animals, but different needs and wants led to different choices in breeding so we now have at least 6 different varieties or breeds. Even if you look at the mitochondrial DNA they are practically identical, but selective breeding has made them different. Some traits are suppressed, some are strengthened - but no new genes are introduced. Six very differend breeds originating from the same animals in perhaps 30-50 generations.

I understad you hesitation if you assume that flowers always self pollinate, but it works the same way anyhow. It might take a little longer though and be harder to control.

 

[POTAWIE]

Personally, I selective breed plants in an attempt to improve my varieties, not create new ones. With dogs its quite different since you're choosing male and female

"Most of the varieties we grow are in fact "heirloom" even though we don't call them that."

?I guess I use a lot of terms differently than you

 

[Skyjerk]

Since I'm originally from Zenn-La I wouldn't know about such things.

Yeah, but Shalla-Bal is your sister

 

[MrArboc]

?I guess I use a lot of terms differently than you

True. Like "cross" and "hybrid". Funny thing that knowledge of genetics can be turned agains you. I look like an ass because I've been into these things for 15 years. Mentioning mitochondrial DNA was probably a huge mistake. My bad. You obviously know more than me.

 

[Lally]

With dogs its quite different since you're choosing male and female

You have male and female parts to flowers as well...

Does anyone know how much genetic information is taken from the male or female with chillies?

 

[POTAWIE]

You have male and female parts to flowers as well...

Yes, but when selectively breeding chile plants you are not always choosing both male or females parts, but you're choosing pods with desired characteristics from desired plants

 

[Lally]

You can pollinate specifically as well is what I meant, emasculate the flower and fertilise it with pollen from another good looking plant.

Then you have a male and female parent for your seeds I don't know how much of the genetic information comes from the male compared to the female.