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health What is wrong with my plants?

B

Bjornson

Hi everyone!
 
Something is going on with my pepper plants this season. Some leaves are discolored, curly and fall off by just touching them.
 
I've seen some gnats but I don't know if they are the troublemakers this time around. What do you think, will gnats make the leaves look like this? Maybe the gnats make the plants more susceptible to other diseases?
 
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Hawaiianero said:
I see hint's of a couple different possibilities.
 
Light burn is one of them
Curling leaves could be mites but more likely combination of over-fert/over-water.
 
Can you post pics of entire plant/soil/lighting setup?
Click to expand...
 
I believe you're on to something. It shouldn't be light burn because I keep the plants a couple of inches away from the two 24W T5 in my setup, and I also use a fan which cools them off. Over-fert is also unlikely since I recently repotted the plants and I haven't used any ferts at all for a couple of weeks. However, the symptoms started after repotting which makes me believe it could be over-watering because of the bigger pots holding more water and for a longer time. Maybe the plants are having problems handling it. I would say I don't water too frequently, but perhaps I give them too much water at a time (I water until it's dripping out from underneath the pots). 
 
Do you think we've got it? :)
 
Thanks by the way!
 
Bjornson said:
 
I believe you're on to something. It shouldn't be light burn because I keep the plants a couple of inches away from the two 24W T5 in my setup, and I also use a fan which cools them off. Over-fert is also unlikely since I recently repotted the plants and I haven't used any ferts at all for a couple of weeks. However, the symptoms started after repotting which makes me believe it could be over-watering because of the bigger pots holding more water and for a longer time. Maybe the plants are having problems handling it. I would say I don't water too frequently, but perhaps I give them too much water at a time (I water until it's dripping out from underneath the pots). 
 
Do you think we've got it? :)
 
Thanks by the way!
Click to expand...
Narrowing it down at least.
From the pics it looks like you got perlite at least on the surface. What else is in there?
In any case it sounds like you figured out the problem.
Normally you want to saturate the medium and then let it dry out almost completely but in this case you might want to let the transplants recover for a couple weeks with lighter watering cycles. The hardest thing for me with chinense plants is having the patience to just let them grow. Especially if you got them next to a couple baccatums. Best of luck to you :party:
 
When using my HO T5 setup, my peppers would get purple stria like you see there on those leaves. The idea behind it is that the high amount of extra UV light given of by the fluorescent bulbs can cause this phenomenon.
 
Anyways, my best bet here is stress. I have to agree with terra in that overwatering could be the culprit, as it is easily one of the most common ways plants are overstressed. Excess air movement from a fan adds stress, too.
 
From here I would wait till media is dry and then do a water soak/flush to make sure and get any nutrient salts/buildup cleaned out (water until you get about 20%+ runoff). Then, move your light away a little bit and turn down the fan if you can. Basically just change everything from high stress to low, and then add back one thing at a time and see what is stressing the plant out. 
 
Could it be to low humidity? Some of my plants did have leaves like that, i then rasied my humidity since it was down to 33%, it took some days but the leaves then straighten themself up and looks much better. It could have been other things since i also gave them epsom salt and calcium and some nutrients, but it looks like all my plants like it better with higer humidity.
 
How much calcium did you add?
 
Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium have to be kept in a balance together; too much Calcium will lock out potassium and magnesium. (The browning in your plant's leaf areas looks to me like a mag deficiency. But you don't correct it by adding magnesium, you correct it by reducing calcium)
 
Calcium controls the enzymes and lets parts of the plant communicate (auxins) and move stuff around; particularly relevant is the management of auxins... whole mess of stuff can go wrong if you have low or high calcium.
 
I wouldn't personally add calcium to a sprout - if I do add calcium it's going to be right before they start setting fruit! (That's when it really needs extra calcium and magnesium)
 
If you are watering with tap water you *probably* are giving your plants enough or more than enough calcium as it is. Don't add more.
 
I think the proper course of action here is "don't overwater and leave them alone for awhile!"
 
No nutes for 2 weeks at least, and then start on diluted doses... unless your soil is absolutely barren of them and you have to (e.g. straight peat or something)
 
TrentL said:
How much calcium did you add?
 
Calcium, Potassium, and Magnesium have to be kept in a balance together; too much Calcium will lock out potassium and magnesium. (The browning in your plant's leaf areas looks to me like a mag deficiency. But you don't correct it by adding magnesium, you correct it by reducing calcium)
 
Calcium controls the enzymes and lets parts of the plant communicate (auxins) and move stuff around; particularly relevant is the management of auxins... whole mess of stuff can go wrong if you have low or high calcium.
 
I wouldn't personally add calcium to a sprout - if I do add calcium it's going to be right before they start setting fruit! (That's when it really needs extra calcium and magnesium)
 
If you are watering with tap water you *probably* are giving your plants enough or more than enough calcium as it is. Don't add more.
 
I think the proper course of action here is "don't overwater and leave them alone for awhile!"
 
No nutes for 2 weeks at least, and then start on diluted doses... unless your soil is absolutely barren of them and you have to (e.g. straight peat or something)
Click to expand...
 
Was it my post you answered?
I dont have calcium in my tap water, i have a salt filter that remove all of it and I havent been using my outside water yet (that pass the filter).I foliar feed them with epsom salt and calcium spray
 
Hawaiianero said:
Narrowing it down at least.
From the pics it looks like you got perlite at least on the surface. What else is in there?
In any case it sounds like you figured out the problem.
Normally you want to saturate the medium and then let it dry out almost completely but in this case you might want to let the transplants recover for a couple weeks with lighter watering cycles. The hardest thing for me with chinense plants is having the patience to just let them grow. Especially if you got them next to a couple baccatums. Best of luck to you :party:
Click to expand...
 
I'll try altering the watering cycles and maybe shut off the fan for a week. Yes, I've put a layer of perlite on the surface since I prefer top-watering (I'm lazy) and also to minimize the risk of fungus gnats. My soil mix also contains 10-15% perlite and that's about it.
 
You're spot on my friend, the plants with the problems are chinense, and they're next to a couple of baccatums :)
pwb said:
Could it be to low humidity? Some of my plants did have leaves like that, i then rasied my humidity since it was down to 33%, it took some days but the leaves then straighten themself up and looks much better. It could have been other things since i also gave them epsom salt and calcium and some nutrients, but it looks like all my plants like it better with higer humidity.
Click to expand...
 
The humidity is definitely low. It's winter here in Sweden and the indoor air is really dry. Maybe I could put a glass of water next the plants to solve this?
 
pwb said:
 
Was it my post you answered?
I dont have calcium in my tap water, i have a salt filter that remove all of it and I havent been using my outside water yet (that pass the filter).I foliar feed them with epsom salt and calcium spray
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I was just curious. Calcium early on can be risky business. :)
 
Hi again
 
Another of my peppers, Aji Pineapple, now looks like this. Everything seemed OK until I topped the plant, which I usually do, and only 24 hours later the leaves got discolored and in another 24 hours most of the new leaves fell off.
 
It's not a species thing as both a chinense and a baccatum plant are behaving strangely. It's not the soil, ferts or pH since I'm using the same brand and water as always. I'm almost out of clues. Could it be heat stress (due to the lights being to close and poor air circulation) or fert burn?
 
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Does anyone have an idea about what this could be? I'm starting to suspect bad soil since all my plants got this now. And it seems they get this discoloration when stressed, for example after transplanting or topping/pruning.
 
Lovepeppers said:
Do you ph your water? Have you ph'd your run off?
Click to expand...
I only have a pH meter for soil, but I guess it will work for liquids as well? The soil pH is in the upper 7 level, it's not a digital meter so I can't tell exactly, but definitely 7.7-7.8. Will this lock out any important nutrients causing the plant to look like this and dropping the leaves? The funny thing is that I'm using the same exact soil brand, water and nutrients as the last two years.
 
According to a pH chart the possible lock outs are iron, boron and possibly manganese, copper and zinc.
 
Some more pics:
This discoloration is found on the old and 'semi old' leaves. The discoloration on the semi old leaves is mostly located along the veins. On the old leaves it seems more scattered and spotty.
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The youngest leaves don't have the brown discoloration but are pale, light green.
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Yes, if your ph gets out of range plants get locked out of up taking certain nutrients. You can get Get some ph up / ph down. General hydroponics sells a kit for about 20.00 at most hydro stores. Ideally plants like a ph around 6.0-6.5

Flush your soil with plain ph'd water then with 1/4 to half strenth well rounded ferts. Looks like your either deficient or locked out of P or K due to your stems getting purple.
If your using city tap water make sure to let it sit out at least 24 hours or use an air pump with air stone to bubble out the chlorine which is not good for plants or your beneficials.
I hope all goes well for you.
 
Lovepeppers said:
Yes, if your ph gets out of range plants get locked out of up taking certain nutrients. You can get Get some ph up / ph down. General hydroponics sells a kit for about 20.00 at most hydro stores. Ideally plants like a ph around 6.0-6.5

Flush your soil with plain ph'd water then with 1/4 to half strenth well rounded ferts. Looks like your either deficient or locked out of P or K due to your stems getting purple.
If your using city tap water make sure to let it sit out at least 24 hours or use an air pump with air stone to bubble out the chlorine which is not good for plants or your beneficials.
I hope all goes well for you.
Click to expand...
 
Big thanks Lovepeppers! I'll order a pH kit on the internet right away. I hope I'll get it in time though, the plant is starting to drop leaves and really looks sad.
 
I do have a NPK 2-12-2 bat guano fert but I guess it wouldn't make a difference if the pH level is bad (I mean until I get a pH kit). Unless I do some foliar feeding?
 
It's so strange I haven't had this problem previous seasons since I'm using the same soil brand, water, nutrients etc. I'm using city water though (non chlorine here in Sweden) and perhaps the pH for some reason is higher this season.
 
If the soil and water is too alkaline, how can I prevent this in the future except from using distilled or ph'd water? Maybe put some extra peat moss in the soil mix?
 
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