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annuum what would you get (jalapeno x serrano) cross

POTAWIE said:
I would not name it until its stable since there can be an infinite number of different possiblities from a single crosses, and if they all have the same name it will lead to much confusion. I would just call it a "tepin X jalapeno f1" and then add simple descriptions for f2s, f3s etc. like "tepin X jalapeno f2(long red)"
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Yep... the practice of naming hybrids is kind of silly in my opinion, though I understand it's done for proprietary reasons in most cases.
 
You need to name them something to keep track of them, but too many people want to name their unintentional(or intentional) hybrid some wild, crazy name before any real work has even gone into the cross.
 
I don't like the portmanteau method my self...

Much prefer unique and original names that stray from this silliness...

If you notice, most of the ones that really caught on, are NOT portmanteau'd together.
 
POTAWIE said:
You need to name them something to keep track of them, but too many people want to name their unintentional(or intentional) hybrid some wild, crazy name before any real work has even gone into the cross.
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In some cases hybrids can just be treated as hybrids and left at that. I'm talking more about people marketing F1 hybrids with a unique name. I understand why they do it for proprietary reasons, but it's still annoying. Hybrids are a big business for seed companies, as it basically ensures repeat customers if they like your product.

I may be making this up completely, but if you're starting with two largely domesticated peppers, they might have a greater proportion of recessive traits that came out as part of the selection process. Wild species, on the other hand, seem to express a greater proportion of dominant traits, so if you look at the simple case of the Tepin x Jalapeno, the F1 is much closer to the Tepin morphologically; it has all of the seediness of a Tepin in a larger package, rendering it highly impractical in its current state.

What would result from a Jalapeno x Serrano, I don't know. In the hundreds of years of cultivation (or however old these varieties are), the fact that we haven't seen some super hybrid pop up suggestions that you would probably get something inferior to either parent for the first few generations. Your average farmer didn't have a good understanding of Mendelian genetics back in the day, but they could tell when seed was worth saving.
 
synclinorium said:
In some cases hybrids can just be treated as hybrids and left at that. (I totally agree.. yes this is more of a personal)

the F1 is much closer to the Tepin morphologically; (Exactamente!)

it has all of the seediness of a Tepin in a larger package, rendering it highly impractical in its current state. (I will agree to disagree on that, a Tepin by nature was designed to be a seedy lil package that the birds could spread to far distant regions, natural selection at it's best! Seeds do not bother me the recessive heat I love...I guess it all depends on how you look at things, to me this was a pretty cool experience and one I will never forget)

but they could tell when seed was worth saving. (I dunno I am not going to go all Nazi-like on my Hybrid, so I will definitely be saving the seeds)
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Definitely a very knowledgable post, Thanx and God Bless..
 
F1s will not show recessive genes whether wild or domesticated, it will only show the dominat traits of the male and female. You can basically predict what the f1s will turn out like by knowing the parent plants and knowing what features are dominant. For example if you crossed a large red pepper and a small yellow pod, you'd likely get an f1 that is red and medium sized but f2s will all be different.
 
If I remember right here are some dominant features:

Black
Red
Spicy (though heat tends to average out)
Large (though size tends to be an average)
Annuum esque growth habbit
IIRC upright pods are dominant but I could be wrong.
 
For the record, upright is not dominant, and black is not either, at least from my experience although purple is possible co-dominant as discussed earlier Annuum like growth maybe if there is an intra-species cross involving an annuum and another species
 
Didn't know that about the upright, I had read somwhere it was... Glad to have the record straight.

I thought the AISPES folks had decided black was co-dominate with red, which was how they got their black pepper with red stripes? Could be mistaken on that. But there is supposedly another person out there whose made the same cross, and ended with the same striped results. I think it was smokemaster talking about it on mega's thread with all the pictures...

As to the info about the annuum growth, the same can be said for any of the other characteristics.

A yellow x a yellow, probably won't be red I don't think - certainly not in F1, and assuming I remember my highschool genetics correctly haha. How much of a roll do two expressed recessive traits play in an F1? From what I recall, two recessives in people result in the dominate being overcome, or possibly even incompletely dominate (IE two people with blue eyes, will probably have blue eyed kids, unless brown eyes are recessive in both, and if recessive in one, then hazel is a possibility).

Are there any dominate traits that I missed Potawie?
 
Black is actually purple produced by anthocyanin and can effect pod, stems, flowers and/or leaves in different combinations. It may be co-dominant but my crosses have not shown any of this.
There are no recessive genes in f1s, just dominant. Much different than animal/human breeding where there is no stable f1 showing only dominant traits.
Yellow X yellow should always be yellow in F1 since those are the only colors involved in the cross, no dominance required. F2s+ will show different colors/features depending on recessive genes involved.
I'm not sure of all the dominat traits, most of the f1s I've breed have been quite dissapointing. Its the f2 stage where things can really get intereresting but you really need to grow out tonnes of plants

Here's a great article on tomato genes which should help clear up a lot of things
http://kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes2.html
 
POTAWIE said:
I'm not sure of all the dominat traits, most of the f1s I've breed have been quite dissapointing. Its the f2 stage where things can really get intereresting but you really need to grow out tonnes of plants
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That's been my experience this year. The four (accidental) F1s I have going are all underwhelming compared to the parents. We'll see what the F2s look like next year, but I don't have space for the dozens of plants required for a full range of expression.
 
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