fertilizer What's the best fertilizer for peppers

Rattlesnake Blues said:
Hey Folks!
 
This is my 2nd season growing hot peppers. When you growers say "fish emulsion", is that the same thing as the bottle of Alaska Fish Fertilizer I see at HD, Lowes, etc.? I bought a bottle of it and I've been using it on the plants this year. As a newbie, there are so many fertilizer options that it can be confusing...at least for me anyways. I did have success producing a good compost pile for this year; hoping it makes a difference.
 
John
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Yep it's the same stuff.
 
Dave2000 said:
You may have fewer microbes but unless the synthetics are over applied you won't kill them all off.  Organic fertilizers turn into the same salts as some synthetics, can't be absorbed by the plant until they are.
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Yes so why add mycorrhizae if you are giving the plant fertilizers that are counter productive to the soil food web?
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
Yes so why add mycorrhizae if you are giving the plant fertilizers that are counter productive to the soil food web?
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The fertilizers are more beneficial than counter productive if used in the correct amounts.   That soil food web will exist, but with fertilizer tolerant organisms.
 
This has been proven an effective strategy for increasing yield in farming, over decades of scientific testing.   If farmers benefited as much ditching fertilizer and adding mycorrhizae to the soil once (since it sticks around) they'd do it instead.  Granted there comes a point where it's as much a matter of time and cost as it is one of whether you want an equally effective all organic solution.
 
Dave2000 said:
The fertilizers are more beneficial than counter productive if used in the correct amounts.   That soil food web will exist, but with fertilizer tolerant organisms.
 
This has been proven an effective strategy for increasing yield in farming, over decades of scientific testing.   If farmers benefited as much ditching fertilizer and adding mycorrhizae to the soil once (since it sticks around) they'd do it instead.  Granted there comes a point where it's as much a matter of time and cost as it is one of whether you want an equally effective all organic solution.
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that's fine if you have a large farm but we are talking about home growers here with most growing in containers.
In that case organic is the only way to go.
 
I've read much to the same effect, although the threshold to keep microbes alive with salted nutrients is fairly low (like 30-40ppm for P), which usually goes against standard feeding strategy.
 
And it is relevant here and elsewhere, there are any number of growers that restrict their use of nutrients to encourage a microherd with potted plants. From a rigid organic perspective that seems counterproductive, but from their view, if they can reduce input and maintain yield, why not? Everyone has their own way of doing things.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
that's fine if you have a large farm but we are talking about home growers here with most growing in containers.
In that case organic is the only way to go.
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It's the opposite.  On a large farm synthetic fertilizers are more detrimental because they run off from rain or other irrigation and end up causing imbalance in local waterways in a concentration too high for the bacteria to break it down at a high enough rate.
 
In small container gardening the quantity used and surrounding area bacteria easily break it down before runoff becomes a problem, the quantity and water rate can be better controlled.
 
You then have every gain a farmer does but not the negative aspect.  The goal is not the most diverse and highly populated soil web possible, it's lots of glorious hot peppers without wasted time and money.    If you are lucky enough to use just the right amount of costly organic fertilizers you might, possibly, get a slightly larger plant.  That plant will need more soil, water, and area.  You might as well have just grown an additional plant instead, except that most organic growers seem to end up with smaller, not larger plants unless the amount of time and labor and/or cost gets quite high.
 
Dave2000 said:
 
It's the opposite.  On a large farm synthetic fertilizers are more detrimental because they run off from rain or other irrigation and end up causing imbalance in local waterways in a concentration too high for the bacteria to break it down at a high enough rate.
 
In small container gardening the quantity used and surrounding area bacteria easily break it down before runoff becomes a problem, the quantity and water rate can be better controlled.
 
You then have every gain a farmer does but not the negative aspect.  The goal is not the most diverse and highly populated soil web possible, it's lots of glorious hot peppers without wasted time and money.    If you are lucky enough to use just the right amount of costly organic fertilizers you might, possibly, get a slightly larger plant.  That plant will need more soil, water, and area.  You might as well have just grown an additional plant instead, except that most organic growers seem to end up with smaller, not larger plants unless the amount of time and labor and/or cost gets quite high.
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I guess you have never seen Pepper Gurus plants? :rofl:
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
I guess you have never seen Pepper Gurus plants? :rofl:
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What about growers who have great synthetically fertilized plants?  If one person has good success with all organic (or all synthetic) and others not as much, that implies more that there are other variables involved rather than that organic is the answer. 
 
It also doesn't address the time or cost factor, nor the one about just growing an additional plant in the available space IF your plants are smaller so there is room for more of them. 
 
Well Dave as for synthetic fertilizers killing soil microbes... here is a quote from Teaming With Microbes:

"Chemical fertilizers, pesticides, insecticides, and fungicides affect the soil food web, toxic to some members, warding off others, and changing the environment. Important fungal and bacterial relationships don’t form when a plant can get free nutrients. When chemically fed, plants bypass the microbial-assisted method of obtaining nutrients, and microbial populations adjust accordingly. Trouble is, you have to keep adding chemical fertilizers and using “-icides,” because the right mix and diversity—the very foundation of the soil food web—has been altered.
It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa are gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms, for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in soluble nitrogen fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders of organic material, their absence is a great loss. Without the activity and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient system but all the other things a healthy soil food web brings. Soil structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic, pathogens and pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes a lot more work than it needs to be.
If the salt-based chemical fertilizers don’t kill portions of the soil food web, rototilling will. This gardening rite of spring breaks up fungal hyphae, decimates worms, and rips and crushes arthropods. It destroys soil structure and eventually saps soil of necessary air. Again, this means more work for you in the end. Air pollution, pesticides, fungicides, and herbicides, too, kill off important members of the food web community or “chase” them away. Any chain is only as strong as its weakest link: if there is a gap in the soil food web, the system will break down and stop functioning properly."
 
^  That's a highly biased piece written for profit.  Of course it's going to suggest the proven success of multi-billion dollar farming industries is all wrong because there's no money in writing another book about what is now common knowledge.
 
Unfortunately most of it is truth stretched to its limits and deliberate omission of the information that none of it matters as much as implied.
 
For example, it's nonsense that earthworms have a problem with it.  I still have worms in all my plant containers that I put there seasons ago and then used synthetic fertilizer in.  If anything I have a lot more (live) worms than I used to.
 
Again, decades of solid scientific research and testing has proven what is most effective for good crop yield.  It is not all organic, it's synthetic, then a little of this and that like manure.
 
It is essential to put back what you take out of the soil, which synthetic fertilizers cannot do, but they still have their place in providing nutrients for optimal growth.
 
I bought me some Worm Castings from Amazon for this growing season. I've read many good things about it. Also bought myself some Red Wiggler worms and looking to set up my own personal worm farm. I'll be feeding them kitchen scraps, and they, in return will give me poo fertilizer for my plants!
 
Dave2000 said:
^  That's a highly biased piece written for profit.  Of course it's going to suggest the proven success of multi-billion dollar farming industries is all wrong because there's no money in writing another book about what is now common knowledge.
 
Unfortunately most of it is truth stretched to its limits and deliberate omission of the information that none of it matters as much as implied.
 
For example, it's nonsense that earthworms have a problem with it.  I still have worms in all my plant containers that I put there seasons ago and then used synthetic fertilizer in.  If anything I have a lot more (live) worms than I used to.
 
Again, decades of solid scientific research and testing has proven what is most effective for good crop yield.  It is not all organic, it's synthetic, then a little of this and that like manure.
 
It is essential to put back what you take out of the soil, which synthetic fertilizers cannot do, but they still have their place in providing nutrients for optimal growth.
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You. I like you. Your knowledge of agricultural science is nice :)
 
Great thread here. For the record I dump a bunch of cheap composted cow manure in the bed before transplanting, and throw in whatever composted plant matter I can find around our yard, mostly scrapings from the back of the driveway where all the trees dump their leaves in the fall. Don't overdo it with the Epsom salt, made that mistake a few times and burned the leaves because it was too concentrated.
 
Question: Is there any truth to the old advice about putting match tips under the roots when you transplant? I understand the theory and have always done it, but have no idea if it actually helps, especially if you're already fertilizing using other methods. If it does work, how many matches should you use? Can you overdo it?
 
philosophiser said:
Great thread here. For the record I dump a bunch of cheap composted cow manure in the bed before transplanting, and throw in whatever composted plant matter I can find around our yard, mostly scrapings from the back of the driveway where all the trees dump their leaves in the fall. Don't overdo it with the Epsom salt, made that mistake a few times and burned the leaves because it was too concentrated.
 
Question: Is there any truth to the old advice about putting match tips under the roots when you transplant? I understand the theory and have always done it, but have no idea if it actually helps, especially if you're already fertilizing using other methods. If it does work, how many matches should you use? Can you overdo it?
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 i too put stick matches in the hole at planting. about 10-15
 
I currently have a few buckets full of yard waste, lawn clippings and whatnot, sitting around turning into compost / tea.  Why let animal middlemen digest away their share of nutrients?  It's faster, and some would say easier to use manure, but with planning it doesn't get much easier than just letting a bucket sit for months and letting it get rained on so it stays damp, so it continues to decompose.   I will still add synthetic fertilizer to plants that get some of that.
 
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