health Whats the cause of these spots?

slashroot · Apr 1, 2012

Big surprise today, checking my hydroponic plants closely. One leaf on one of my plants(Red Habanero) got some weird spots.

What could be wrong? Hope it's not dying :banghead:

Was enjoying looking at my plants and feeling proud of them, then oh my god whats that!

darkb16a1 · Apr 1, 2012

It might not be exactly this, a picture of a whole plant would help, with as neutral white balance as possible, but this seems to me either as a fertilizer burn, or sunburn.

SuperHot · Apr 1, 2012

It does look like sun burn to me to.

slashroot · Apr 2, 2012

darkb16a1 said:
It might not be exactly this, a picture of a whole plant would help, with as neutral white balance as possible, but this seems to me either as a fertilizer burn, or sunburn.

SuperHot said:
It does look like sun burn to me to.

Thanks for your replies! I would rule out fert burn, since they had almost too little nutes for quite some time. The LED light is at long distance, about 1m(3.2feet).

I was thinking a bit myself about what this could be. Since its a plastic container and the space is very limited. This specific leaf has has been pushed tightly into the side of the container, which means barely getting no air at all on this leaf. Might also have been wet there, making it rot.

Could this be a reason or was it a silly thought?

slashroot · Apr 2, 2012

Could it be over fertilized? I just followed the lucas formula, reservoir is 8 gallons. Since some of the plants are flowering I used 63ml Micro and 126ml flower.

Before I was running much less than that, only 31ml Micro and 63ml Flower. Just followed the instructions from some forum(might have been for marijuana growers).

These are my settings now, pH 6.1 and EC 1595. The EC seems crazy high or is it just me? That's whats showing at the display at least. Before I kept my EC around 800 - 900.

Here are some pictures with the LED light turned off to give more realistic colors. The new growth is naturally green because it's young or do you guys see something wrong with the color?

nitwit · Apr 2, 2012

hello slash dude,
it may be a bacterial of some sort
if you can increase your air circulation and
how many atmospheric volume changes
you may be able to lower the humidity and give less chance for bacterial growths

good growing

(and it does look like sunscald, just do not think led would give in just one small area as shown)

:halo:

edit: please try to chop off the possibly infected leaf and remove from area

slashroot · Apr 3, 2012

nitwit said:
hello slash dude, it may be a bacterial of some sort if you can increase your air circulation and how many atmospheric volume changes you may be able to lower the humidity and give less chance for bacterial growths good growing (and it does look like sunscald, just do not think led would give in just one small area as shown) edit: please try to chop off the possibly infected leaf and remove from area

Thanks

You made me think even more about other things that could have caused it!

The air circulation has been the same all the time, same with grow light distance. It's only the plants growing in the middle reservoir that are affected. So I figured it has to be the water in that tank.

Cleaned out everything in that tank today and added new nutrients. Hopefully new growth wont be affected!

There wasn't just one plant showing dried out spots/holes but most of the C.Chinense, the Red Manzano had no signs. All in the middle reservoir.

patrick · Apr 3, 2012

Could be a burn caused by water on the leaf magnifying the intensity of the light. If it isn't spreading I wouldn't worry too much about it.

slashroot · Apr 3, 2012

patrick said:
Could be a burn caused by water on the leaf magnifying the intensity of the light. If it isn't spreading I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Sure could be water on the leaves somehow. Will pay more attention to everything to see if I can find the real source of the problem. Now just need some time to pass, new growth will tell the truth.

I'll try not worry too much, don't like my babies looking unhealthy though haha, cheers :party:

nitwit · Apr 3, 2012

i think most of the time i shoot from the hip.

sometimes works good, other times not so much

good growing
:stop:

rabid48 · Apr 3, 2012

Since it's only on one leaf and that leaf is on the edge of your container, my guess would be something like a lack of airflow/minor edema. I have it on a few of my plants but something that small and isolated shouldn't really effect it that much.

patrick · Apr 3, 2012

rabid48 how can a lack of airflow cause spots on a single leaf like that? Also what is minor edema? I thought edema was the raised spots on the underside of a leaf caused by excess water. Is it possible for those to turn into white spots on the top of the leaf? Thanks.

slashroot · Apr 4, 2012

Sure my plant will probably do just fine

It's nothing like edema, one of my overwintered thai dragon plants go that so I'm totally sure that's not whats affecting my hydro plant. Even the worst edema you can barely notice it on the top of the leaf.

cheers!

rabid48 · Apr 4, 2012

patrick said:
rabid48 how can a lack of airflow cause spots on a single leaf like that? Also what is minor edema? I thought edema was the raised spots on the underside of a leaf caused by excess water. Is it possible for those to turn into white spots on the top of the leaf? Thanks.

Minor edema is just edema, except only a little bit. Once those blisters pop they leave behind damaged cells (as I understand it) which eventually leads to translucent areas and then spots that look similar to those white ones there, which are devoid of any color or health cells. From what I understand it sounds like it manifests itself in different ways, but always because of an imbalance between water uptake in the roots and transpiration in the leaves. Often times for us the cause is overwatering because we love our plants too much, but it can also be caused by lack of airflow, which causes the leaves to not evaporate the water quick enough.

Actually the more I'm reading about it now it sounds like I am wrong on the edema, but it could still be something related to a too muchwater/not enough air situation. I've seen something similar on my plants and that was my guess as to what happened here (based off of the conditions presented).

I dunno how that works with a hydro system like slashroot's here, especially the overwatering part (I have absolutely NO hydroponics experience), but it seems like there could be a section of stagnant air there that leaf is in the picture. I originally thought that it was actually wedged between two pots, but now I see it's not.

Don't take everything I say for fact, either. I'm new to all of this as well. Maybe I don't understand the edema part quite right, but I can't think of any better cause for the spots other than the water acting like a magnifying glass like you said. Who knows. Hope it works out slash!

Also...post 69. Allllllrightt....

slashroot · Apr 5, 2012

rabid48 said:
Minor edema is just edema, except only a little bit. Once those blisters pop they leave behind damaged cells (as I understand it) which eventually leads to translucent areas and then spots that look similar to those white ones there, which are devoid of any color or health cells. From what I understand it sounds like it manifests itself in different ways, but always because of an imbalance between water uptake in the roots and transpiration in the leaves. Often times for us the cause is overwatering because we love our plants too much, but it can also be caused by lack of airflow, which causes the leaves to not evaporate the water quick enough.

Actually the more I'm reading about it now it sounds like I am wrong on the edema, but it could still be something related to a too muchwater/not enough air situation. I've seen something similar on my plants and that was my guess as to what happened here (based off of the conditions presented).

I dunno how that works with a hydro system like slashroot's here, especially the overwatering part (I have absolutely NO hydroponics experience), but it seems like there could be a section of stagnant air there that leaf is in the picture. I originally thought that it was actually wedged between two pots, but now I see it's not.

Don't take everything I say for fact, either. I'm new to all of this as well. Maybe I don't understand the edema part quite right, but I can't think of any better cause for the spots other than the water acting like a magnifying glass like you said. Who knows. Hope it works out slash!

Also...post 69. Allllllrightt....

I have never seen major edema making big dried spots before, just because I haven't had it really bad. So I understand how you could have thought it were edema

Anyways there are no bumps on the undersides at all, just suddenly dry holes.

What you mentioned about a section of stagnant air could sure be true since that specific leaf were very isolated for a while, pushing growth towards the container walls. Strange thing though was that other plants in the same tank started to show same signs even when growing in open space. So that kinda rules out the stagnant air theory.

Water schedule has been the same all the time, nothing has changed about the system. Only change is nutrients that I'm changing every 2 weeks or more often.

One thing that cough my mind was, could natron used for pH Up cause problems? This specific tank I got very acidic in pH so I used a lot of natron to get it up to 6.1 pH.

Anyways I changed the reservoir water and stopped using any natron. Now new growth seem to be fine, without any spots appearing