co-packer Where to find someone to copack/manufacture a very small quantity of a limited sauce flavor?

[Sam & Oliver]

I proudly use Endorphin Farms for all my runs, and will continue to do so, however for small runs of a "limited product", I need to find out who/where/how to best go about it.
 
I started pursuing my Food Manufacturer's license in CT but it already expired and I didn't renew.  I don't have the time or facilities currently to bottle myself.
 
So how do I best go about getting a small run, about 10-15 cases of 5oz woozy bottles produced legally?

• Should I be looking for a restaurant?
• Should I be looking for someone with a commercial kitchen with a canning license?
• Should I be looking for someone with an agricultural license who can produce food under the cottage laws of their state?
• If they are out of state, can they then sell me/produce the product out of state?

I already understand and accept that it may have a higher COG from a larger run, however the minimum runs I have found from any manufacturing facility is 100 gallons, which I want to do just about 7 gallons.
 
First and foremost: It has to be legit.  I don't want any trouble with the FDA, DCP or Inspectors.  The labels will be produced from my normal account at MetSpeed Label, who do a wonderful job with the labels.
 
I know in CT, my products MUST reference the zip code of the place of manufacture.  On all my products, however, I choose to reference Endorphin Farms's Name, town and zip code because I support their work.
 
That said, where do I turn when I  only need less than 10 gallons for a legitimate product that will ultimately end up on a brick and mortar store shelf.

 

[salsalady]

First choice would be- get your license- find a small commercial processing kitchen, use some place like a grange hall or use a restaurant afterhours.  For Grange halls, I think they have a limited number of times they can rent out for commercial reasons, but if you're only planning on doing a couple runs a year, it might work.  In  Washington, it's $55/year for the food processors license.  Depending on the pH of the batch you may or may not need to get BPCS certified.  If no BPCS, get the PA letter and (in WA) that's all you need to use a restaurant or other community kitchen.  in WA, once you are licensed and approved for XYZ facility, you can't move to another location without getting re-licensed in the new location.  It's not a big deal, just another $55.
 
For one small batch, it might be worth a bit of a drive if you can find a shared use or community kitchen within a few hours drive. 
 
Second choice- Find another small processor, someone doing similar who may not have considered co-packing for others.  Ask them if they would make it for you under their license but they need to agree to a non-disclosure and also a non-competition agreement.  They can't take your recipe, make it for themselves and re-name it.  It would still need the PA and all that, but you wouldn't have to get licensed.
 
Good Luck!
Cottage Law kitchens probably won't be of use.  AFAIK, hot sauces are not allowed under cottage industry rules.  I've checked for a few different states and they are all very specific in that hot sauces are NOT approved.

 

[PepperDaddy]

For something that small I would consider a small restaurant that is selling locally.  For example, go the grocery store and are there local Italian restaurants selling their spaghetti sauce?  Or maybe they are selling it at the restaurant.  In St. Louis we have an Italian district and every restaurant has a sauce in the grocery stores.  Much of it is packed by a single restaurant/packer that does it for everyone.  Some only sell in their restaurant.  Ask them.  Same thing with BBQ sauce.  What local BBQ shop is selling their sauce?  Where do they make it or could they make it for you. 
 
When I was looking for my co-packer I found a place in Florida that would do very small batches but the price would probably be pretty high.  10 cases is only about 5 gallons.  I can look up their name when I get home.

 

[heathotsauce]

I did a small ~20 case run awhile back with a local co-packer called Preserve Sonoma. That was the smallest run I could find for a locally, and Merrillee is really great.

 

[PepperDaddy]

Here's the link for IPAC.  Although, I really think with such a small volume you need to look locally.  Shipping will suck on a cost/bottle basis and it's already going to cost a lot for such a small batch.  Good luck.

 

[salsalady]

Here's the link for IPAC.  Although, I really think with such a small volume you need to look locally.  Shipping will suck on a cost/bottle basis and it's already going to cost a lot for such a small batch.  Good luck.

YEP!  what PD said.   cross country shipping will be harsh.
 
 
 
 
I think the first hurdle is to find out what your sauce is and how the PA will require it to be processed.  It's wasted effort to find a facility/copacker(cottageindustry)/situation thinking you can processes it yourself if the recipe requires BPCS certification.  Make the 100% true to end recipe test batch, get the PA whatever.  That's what will dictate where you need to look for a process facility.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

For most copackers the juice won't be worth the squeeze for a 10-20 case run.

They have to do R&D to get the product cleared and since it's a "limited edition" they know you're not going to make any more - so all the time/efforts they sink into pre-production will be $ down the drain.

On a 400 CS run they will have enough scale to absorb the cost of pre-production efforts - and they're also counting on re-orders from you.

Your best bet, as SL said, is to get your license & make the micro-batches yourself.

I'd love to do seasonal sauces - but if I do they'll be at the 200-400 CS range. Just like the copacker's R&D, I have to work with a graphic artist, create prototypes, develop the recipes, marketing materials, web dev time, etc - for 120 bottles of sauce I wouldn't waste my time for anything less than 200 CS (2400 bottles)

 

[Sam & Oliver]

Unfortunately the sauce I wanted to run is in a very small demographic in my area (superhot, Brainstrain-Strawberry Preserves-Honey) - I can't exactly sell that at the supermarket (people here freak out now over hab sauces, god forbid they get a hot mouth) and the cost per case would drive my COG per bottle higher than my BBQ sauce, which is 16oz.
 
I have the Process Authority letter in hand already paid for, and approved, I have the bottle approved, just need the labels printed and affixed.  Essentially I just need someone to fill the darn things from a certified kitchen.
 
If the product does well at fairs/expos then I'll produce it. I've sampled it at my last two shows as a "sample only" option and it was well received by people who tried it.
 
But this is a more costly sauce due to the price of the ingredients, so an 1800 bottle run is too risky for now, yet I want to be able to legally sell it at the shows as a limited release in 2015, and go production with it if the metrics prove it sells.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Unfortunately the sauce I wanted to run is in a very small demographic in my area (superhot, Brainstrain-Strawberry Preserves-Honey) - I can't exactly sell that at the supermarket (people here freak out now over hab sauces, god forbid they get a hot mouth) and the cost per case would drive my COG per bottle higher than my BBQ sauce, which is 16oz.
 
I have the Process Authority letter in hand already paid for, and approved, I have the bottle approved, just need the labels printed and affixed.  Essentially I just need someone to fill the darn things from a certified kitchen.
 
If the product does well at fairs/expos then I'll produce it. I've sampled it at my last two shows as a "sample only" option and it was well received by people who tried it.
 
But this is a more costly sauce due to the price of the ingredients, so an 1800 bottle run is too risky for now, yet I want to be able to legally sell it at the shows as a limited release in 2015, and go production with it if the metrics prove it sells.

and for a copacker to "fill the damn bottles" they need to clean equipment, Prep their kitchen, fire the kettle, set up the labeler, and clean the equipment again.

The set-up & break down time is roughly the same for a production line for 10 CS as it is for 1000 CS.

So with all that time spent filling your 120 bottles they could be making a much much larger and more profitable run. And the copackers out there probably can't make a run that small. Most have a 30 gallon kettle as the smallest. Less than 1/2 a kettle can scald around the edges, so that's 3X What you want to make.

As for this sauce being untested in your market & expensive to make, all I can say is that business is not without risk and if you believe in the recipe, you bite the bullet. All sauce making is investing in yourself.

The smallest commercial batch I've made has been 70 CS. That's why when I make a sauce I prototype the hell out of it - work at it for months, tweaking & fine tuning it until I have the confidence that it's going to meet my standards for quality, uniqueness and versatility. Then I hope like hell it scales.

Once I'm confident in a creation I have no issues scaling 200 cases. And I can't afford a mistake any more than you can. But I'll blow through 10 CS of anything in a week, so there's no point in making that small of a qty.

One last bit of advice - some recipes aren't commercially viable. I'm sure I've said this before here on various topics, but you have a great example. Scalability is critical. What if you've created the best sauce known to man - where are you going to get 1000 lbs of brain strains for your full production batch? And the economics sometimes kill a recipe as well - if it's too expensive of a sauce to make 200 CS of, then it's not a viable product.

Not every sauce can be made. For every one of my current products there are a dozen or more amazingly tasty recipes sitting in my safe that for one reason or another aren't commercially viable.

Rather than bang your head against the wall trying to make something like this, I'd suggest getting to work on your next recipe - one that will work. There are lots of super hot peppers that are cheaper & easier to obtain than the brain strain. Honey is expensive as hell unless you own the hives.

What I'm reading is that it's costly to make, impossible to scale and impractical as a product. So maybe that isn't the right next recipe for S&O's.

Or you need to rent a commercial space and make your 10 CS run under your own license. One of the two.

Good luck.

 

[Sam & Oliver]

This was conceptualized as a "quarter 4 / winter limited run" that would be advertised as a "stay warm / turn up the heat" campaign, and be included in various combo-packs and exclusively through events in December/January of 15/16, until it ran out. (Apothic wine did this with "Apothic Dark" - granted they had a bigger run, and sell nationally to virtually every liquor store in america, but scaled down version of this...) Depending on how fast it moved, or demand I would then go full tilt.  What I don't know is how easy it is to move a superhot.  My biggest seller % wise is the BBQ sauce.  hands down I've had to re-order already, within 1 month I've gone through half my stock of it.  Chipotle is #2 (funny enough everyone wants to think they like hot, but wuss out on the hab sauce and get one that's "not that hot") - which is why the superhot is a big ? on pulling the trigger.
 
It looks like I have to either scale up or get my wholesale manufacturer's license then for what want to do myself.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

This was conceptualized as a "quarter 4 / winter limited run" that would be advertised as a "stay warm / turn up the heat" campaign, and be included in various combo-packs and exclusively through events in December/January of 15/16, until it ran out. (Apothic wine did this with "Apothic Dark" - granted they had a bigger run, and sell nationally to virtually every liquor store in america, but scaled down version of this...) Depending on how fast it moved, or demand I would then go full tilt.  What I don't know is how easy it is to move a superhot.  My biggest seller % wise is the BBQ sauce.  hands down I've had to re-order already, within 1 month I've gone through half my stock of it.  Chipotle is #2 (funny enough everyone wants to think they like hot, but wuss out on the hab sauce and get one that's "not that hot") - which is why the superhot is a big ? on pulling the trigger.
 
It looks like I have to either scale up or get my wholesale manufacturer's license then for what want to do myself.

 
Or choice 3: don't make it and make something that's more practical. 
 
I get your concept.  Don't you think I'd love to make seasonal sauces? Several sauce makers do it - they mostly have their own kitchens & small kettles. It's their reward for that investment - that they have the luxury of producing limited edition micro-batches of seasonal sauces.
 
And of course with limited edition, it has an increased value, so one could ask $15-20 for a 10 oz bottle and likely get it.  I have recipes "in the vault" superior to any of my current lineup - but they're impractical to make just like this one sounds like it's impractical to make. 
 
To to the original question, really really small batch stuff isn't really compatible with most copackers. It's not really what they do as their business model. 
 
That said, it sounds like Heat's suggestion above would be a fine compromise - 20 CS is a tiny batch and I'm amazed to hear that's even a possibility. But for you that would mean shipping 20 CS @ ~$10/CS, adding cost to your production run (resulting in a still-more costly product) - plus the cost of shipping them any specialized ingredients.
 
But I may be in contact with them for a couple of seasonal sauces that I want to make. Thanks for the suggestion Heat!

 

[Sam & Oliver]

 
Bah wizzers on you guys! lol
 
'tis all good though. I guess I'll go get my license then.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

For 10 CS runs that's probably the best idea.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

And if you have the runs, it's not the best idea?

 

[sirex]

Yeah. The 1000 lbs of brainstrains is what gets me. Very sobering perspective it puts on things.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Yeah. The 1000 lbs of brainstrains is what gets me. Very sobering perspective it puts on things.

Ask anyone here at THP who was able to get a bottle of my "Unlucky Squirrel" prototype - one of the tastiest sauces I've made. I just couldn't find enough 7-pot Jonah (red) to make a commercial batch, and it would have been logistically challenging since it's a short harvest season.

Some sauces are better left as hobby recipes. I actually invested a bit into prototyping that one only to finally realize it wasn't viable at this time.

Lesson learned.

 

[salsalady]

Sourcing 7 Pots and brain strains isn't as difficult as y'all are thinking.  I hand processed about 400 pounds of morugas and jonah 7 pots a few years ago for Candice's Incinerator sauce.  Pre-ordered from a contract grower in the spring, pay for it when it ships in the fall.  The chiles came from 2 or 3 different growers.
 
The key is- you have to be able to process them when they are ready, and have to have storage for them in one form or another.  We did a combination of freeze and dry,  packaged in batch sizes. 
 
For Unlucky Squirrel, I'm sure you could get enough Jonah 7 Pots, especially if you start your contact in January when the growers are getting their plants started.  Then it would be deciding how to manage cleaning and storage of the pods, or making it one massive long production day.   
 
Personally, for the incinerator sauce, which was a gorgeous orange/red, I opened and examined every single pod.  On the first batch I just ground up all the pods and it had a few little black seeds and I couldn't stand that.  I stirred and picked out the black bits for probably an hour.  After that...every pod got examined before being ground up.
 
Dunno if the copacker would be willing to go to that level of quality control, probably so if the client is willing to pay for it... ...

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

Sourcing 7 Pots and brain strains isn't as difficult as y'all are thinking.  I hand processed about 400 pounds of morugas and jonah 7 pots a few years ago for Candice's Incinerator sauce.  Pre-ordered from a contract grower in the spring, pay for it when it ships in the fall.  The chiles came from 2 or 3 different growers.
 
The key is- you have to be able to process them when they are ready, and have to have storage for them in one form or another.  We did a combination of freeze and dry,  packaged in batch sizes. 
 
For Unlucky Squirrel, I'm sure you could get enough Jonah 7 Pots, especially if you start your contact in January when the growers are getting their plants started.  Then it would be deciding how to manage cleaning and storage of the pods, or making it one massive long production day.   
 
Personally, for the incinerator sauce, which was a gorgeous orange/red, I opened and examined every single pod.  On the first batch I just ground up all the pods and it had a few little black seeds and I couldn't stand that.  I stirred and picked out the black bits for probably an hour.  After that...every pod got examined before being ground up.
 
Dunno if the copacker would be willing to go to that level of quality control, probably so if the client is willing to pay for it... ...

Yes, agreed.

And that's the level of detail I'd left out. You can get the pods, but you need to contract grow them.

So making a seasonal sauce means planning a year ahead.

And it's riskier because it's a "moon shot" sauce - with the limited amount of pods, hard to make a 60-80 cs test batch, so you're making the 200-300 CS batch and crossing your fingers.

I've had growers offer to contract grow peppers for me - and that's something I'll likely consider down the road.

But I already feel the pain from my one seasonal sauce (Black Label). I basically make a year's worth then cross my fingers. Last year I had just 5 CS left when I re-upped. Cut it pretty close.

It definitely adds a layer of complexity to the process. Lord knows there are enough moving parts without having to contract grow pods.


I'm trying to KISS. If I can manufacture a sauce year-round, my life gets much easier.

That said, I'm for sure going to get in touch with the CA co-packer that's doing 20-40 CS runs. The (placeholder name) Unlucky Squirrell may well live again!

 

[salsalady]

Yes, agreed.

And that's the level of detail I'd left out. You can get the pods, but you need to contract grow them.

So making a seasonal sauce means planning a year ahead.

And it's riskier because it's a "moon shot" sauce - with the limited amount of pods, hard to make a 60-80 cs test batch, so you're making the 200-300 CS batch and crossing your fingers.

I've had growers offer to contract grow peppers for me - and that's something I'll likely consider down the road.

But I already feel the pain from my one seasonal sauce (Black Label). I basically make a year's worth then cross my fingers. Last year I had just 5 CS left when I re-upped. Cut it pretty close.

It definitely adds a layer of complexity to the process. Lord knows there are enough moving parts without having to contract grow pods.


I'm trying to KISS. If I can manufacture a sauce year-round, my life gets much easier.

That said, I'm for sure going to get in ouch with the CA co-packer that's doing 20-40 CS runs. The (placeholder name) Unlucky Squirrell may well live again!

 
well, part of making a "seasonal" sauce is that it's expected to sell out before the next season.  It's not something you are committing to have available all the time.  First Come, First Served and all that jazz.....
 
 
 
Side Note to S&O~
DO NOT put a date on the label!!!!  "2015 Special Edition whatever" will date the product and if it doesn't all sell out in 2015, you are stuck with outdated product.  Once you have done a few years of that limited run and you KNOW you can sell YXY # of cases, then MAYBE look at putting a date on the label.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

 
well, part of making a "seasonal" sauce is that it's expected to sell out before the next season.  It's not something you are committing to have available all the time.  First Come, First Served and all that jazz.....
 
 

Black Label isn't a seasonal sauce - it's a sauce with a difficult to source seasonal pepper that's got a short harvest window.

It's also my best seller next to Brown Label & Dia deal Perro, so it's something I'd rather not sell out of.

Buying / freezing pods is an option, but then I pay storage in someone's freezer.