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Why are my peppers starting to look like Bells?

R

roxrox

Hello all! I found your fine forum in my attempt to determine what is going on with my peppers. I have searched the archives, and cannot find any similar posts. If this question has been answered, please forgive me and be so kind as to point me in the right direction :)

A little background:
  • I am in East-Central Florida.
  • I have a severe root knot nematode infestation.
  • My garden operates on the "Survival of the Fittest" basis.
  • All of my plants are from seed.
  • I plant the seeds in the soil and encourage anything that shows an interest in growing.
  • No pesticides and the occasional application of granular fertilizer only.

About my plants:
  • Jalapeno plant has been producing since at least August 2010.
  • Poblano plant has been around since the late fall (not sure when I planted it).
  • Volunteer Bell pepper that showed up this winter from compost that I dumped in the bed.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, my Jalapenos and Poblanos produced typical-looking peppers (see images). The Bell Pepper was puny and only made a couple of small offerings.

Jalapenos August last year (2010)
LpEOk.jpg



Poblanos in March this year (2011)
WkgBD.jpg



Bell Peppers in March this year (2011)
uYcT9.jpg


Just in the last month I have noticed some changes in the newer peppers. If I thought it was possible, I'd say that the Bells had cross-pollinated with the others; but as I understand, this wouldn't show up until the next generation?

I've noticed my newest Poblanos and Jalapenos growing in a shape that resembles a Bell (short and squat with distinct indentation and the lobes). I ate one of the Poblanos raw, and it tasted just like a Bell pepper (although that could just be my imagination). It was completely mild, with no heat, whatsoever.

Poblanos today
mlkDi.jpg


Jalapenos today
eJHrh.jpg


Mature Jalepeno on same plant
xirf9.jpg


As it has gotten very hot, the nematodes have kicked into gear. I would suspect them, but this didn't happen last season.

Does anyone have insight into how my peppers could have suddenly started looking and acting like a different kind?

Thanks!
 
Here are a couple helpful websites I found for you:

ROOT KNOT NEMATODES:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7489.html
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/diseases/az1187.pdf

SOIL SOLARIZATION:
http://ceamador.ucdavis.edu/files/942.pdf
 
RedtailForester said:
Here are a couple helpful websites I found for you:

ROOT KNOT NEMATODES:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7489.html
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/diseases/az1187.pdf

SOIL SOLARIZATION:
http://ceamador.ucdavis.edu/files/942.pdf
Click to expand...


Thanks! Good articles. I think I've read about nematodes until my eyes bled. I've done a few things to discourage them, including adding horse manure compost and even boiling the soil. I never did solarization, because I only have two small beds and didn't want to go without all of the plants that grow despite the nematodes. I'm moving next month, and plan to leave the little monsters behind.

My main curiosity was whether or not it is possible for a cross-breeding or cross-pollination to happen first-generation? Or, if a plant is from cross-bred seedstock, can it somehow produce different fruit on the same generation? I know I sound like an idiot for even asking this; and have read as much as my little brain can absorb, on the subject. But, I have heard old gardeners say that they've seen this happen. Surely, it is a coincidence, and there is a pathogen that is causing this?

I'm willing to accept that the nematodes have created this strange mutation, it's just weird, considering that I've had them for a couple of summers and never noticed this before.
 
Avon Barksdale said:
Your poblanos look fairly normal to me. The jalapenos could be crossed with a bell pepper, where did you get the seeds?
Click to expand...

These plants are from seeds of plants I grew last year. Those plants came from seeds of produce market peppers.

The Poblanos have always been longer and pointed. Yet, I picked one, the other day that was just like the bell pepper pictured.

It is very possible that all of the plants are crossed; but is it normal for the plant to suddenly start producing different looking fruit so many months later?
 
roxrox said:
These plants are from seeds of plants I grew last year. Those plants came from seeds of produce market peppers.

The Poblanos have always been longer and pointed. Yet, I picked one, the other day that was just like the bell pepper pictured.

It is very possible that all of the plants are crossed; but is it normal for the plant to suddenly start producing different looking fruit so many months later?
Click to expand...
If those were market peppers then they were probably Hybrids. Now that you saved the seed from them and planted them, you are getting the traits from the parent plants that the hybrids came from. Hybrids will never grow true to type and thats why people say to not save hybrid seeds. Although it is sometimes fun to see what you get from them.

Charles
 
well,

since:

"I'm moving next month, and plan to leave the little monsters behind."

it is likely we will never know :eek:
but the plant can not change it's genetic makeup from just touching another's pollen or leaves
the flavor and size of pods "may" be weather related (i would try adding micronutrients if you transport any with you)
or just your own perception

the monsanto group and others (evil large ag conglomerates) :( are doing genetic modifications
but i do not think they are doing them in central florida right now in your garden.

just because i am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me
 
cjbrewer5 said:
If those were market peppers then they were probably Hybrids. Now that you saved the seed from them and planted them, you are getting the traits from the parent plants that the hybrids came from. Hybrids will never grow true to type and thats why people say to not save hybrid seeds. Although it is sometimes fun to see what you get from them.

Charles
Click to expand...

Thanks! The Jalapenos that came from the market pepper seeds looked just like the parents (only smaller). The peppers from this next generation have always looked just like the ones before, until now. I guess I'll conclude that it is environmental.
 
nitwit said:
well,

since:

"I'm moving next month, and plan to leave the little monsters behind."

it is likely we will never know :eek:
but the plant can not change it's genetic makeup from just touching another's pollen or leaves
the flavor and size of pods "may" be weather related (i would try adding micronutrients if you transport any with you)
or just your own perception

the monsanto group and others (evil large ag conglomerates) :( are doing genetic modifications
but i do not think they are doing them in central florida right now in your garden.

just because i am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me
Click to expand...

Monsanto terrifies me. I fear the day that open pollinated and non GE plants are ancient history. As you say, I doubt that they are interested in my garden, lol.

I will take some seeds from my mutant peppers and see what happens in my new place. Hopefully I can make a go of straw bale gardening and avoid the nematodes, altogether.

Cheers!
 
I get this all the time with poblanos and I'm pretty sure its stress and/or weather related and the plant in this state is trying to produce fast pods in order to quickly re-produce
 
roxrox said:
These plants are from seeds of plants I grew last year. Those plants came from seeds of produce market peppers.

The Poblanos have always been longer and pointed. Yet, I picked one, the other day that was just like the bell pepper pictured.

It is very possible that all of the plants are crossed; but is it normal for the plant to suddenly start producing different looking fruit so many months later?
Click to expand...

Like cjbrewer said they were probably already hybrids if they came from the market. I've seen "jalapenos" in the grocery store that look like those, they looked like a jalapeno/bell cross.
 
Avon Barksdale said:
Like cjbrewer said they were probably already hybrids if they came from the market. I've seen "jalapenos" in the grocery store that look like those, they looked like a jalapeno/bell cross.
Click to expand...

The confusing part is that this plant is second generation from the store pepper seeds; and (until now) the peppers from the first plant and this one have all looked like the mature one in the last photo. The only exception being that a few were more short and squat. I just found it strange that the plant suddenly started producing peppers of a different shape.
 
Plants grown from seeds from F-1 hybrids are genetically unstable. If you find one with characteristics you like, you then need to grow it out for several generations (i.e. - several years), to see if it goes all mutant on you :eek:, or actually stabilizes to something you still like!

This is how they develop new OP varieties. But due to the high failure rate, and multiple generations required to stabilize, this is also why this is such a difficult and time-consuming task.

To give you an idea on how weird these mutants can get - the TAM Jalapeno was actually a failed attempt to create a new disease-resistant Bell Pepper!
 
f1s should be stable, it the f2s on that you need to choose most desirable pods/plants.
If the same plants are giving you proper and non proper pods then it isn't beacause of being crossed, it likely has to do with the plant being stressed. Later pods should be normal
 
+1 on what Potawie said. I see that a lot on early and very late pods, where mid season pods are normal.
 
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