bottling Why are there so many articles stating hot filling is dangerous?

[saucemaker223]

Hi everyone!
 
I have been carefully reading the pinned post "Making Hot Sauce 101" which suggests that hot fill/hold method is the most common method for hot sauce makers. This method definitely appeals to me the most however upon googling further about the hot filling method, I see articles like this (https://www.pickyourown.org/cannersnotrecommended.htm) which states that inversion canning is NOT safe. 
 
This makes me super confused, the "Making Hot Sauce 101" guide was published in 2012, is it outdated now?
 
How come there are so many articles like the one above? At first I thought maybe it is because people are talking about inversion canning for jams or pickles and not sauces, but it does mention things like tomato sauce as well.
 
Am I wrong to assume that inversion canning and hot filling is the same thing? If so, how is it different?
 
Further insight would be very much appreciated, thank you!

 

[Siv]

Most hot sauce recipes are acidic, aiming for a pH below 4.6 which is shelf stable without the hot fill and hold. We then hot fill and hold to ensure that we have a long term stable product. Belts and braces is a good thing for a home project where we don't have a calibrated and reliable testing equipment that an industrial setting may have.
 
The canning guidance you see which says hot fill and hold is bad is for those people who try and use the same method for neutral pH vegetables etc. If you boil some broccoli, can it hot and invert, it may not stay safe because it doesn't get completely sterile. If I'm preserving pepper mash that I haven't added vinegar to, I pressure can it.
 
Tomato sauce is pureed tomatoes which can have a pH of 5 or more if diluted. Tomato ketchup has a pH of 3.9 and is shelf stable.

 

[salsalady]

What Siv said ^^^.
 
Just for further clarification- pH4.6 is the absolute minimum for licensed food processors.  For most home sauce makers, they should go for pH 4.0 or lower just for a margin of error.  With a pH below 4.0 AND using the hot fill/hold process, the bottles are shelf stable until opened.  After opening, the sauces should be refrigerated. 
 
Vinegar and citrus juices are often used to lower the pH of sauces, which is 'acidified' as opposed to acidic.  Cucumbers soaked in vinegar ( aka pickles) are acidified, lemons are acidic.  If the item being preserved does not have natural acidity (like peppers, onions and garlic) and you do not ADD acid to the item, it must be pressure canned.
 
Side Note- tomatoes used to be considered safe to can using a boiling water bath as they had a good amount of natural acidity in them.  Over the years, tomatoes have been crossed and hybridized etc to REDUCE the natural acidity.  Most varieties available now have lower acidity than their predecessors.  Most extension services and canning guides now say to pressure can... or add some citric acid powder to each jar for boiling water bath processing.

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

Side Note- tomatoes used to be considered safe to can using a boiling water bath as they had a good amount of natural acidity in them.  Over the years, tomatoes have been crossed and hybridized etc to REDUCE the natural acidity.  Most varieties available now have lower acidity than their predecessors.  Most extension services and canning guides now say to pressure can... or add some to each jar for boiling water bath processing.

 
Interesting SL, I didn't know that. I would think it's going to be tough getting people to shift gears?

 

[Elkcity69]

Interesting SL, I didn't know that. I would think it's going to be tough getting people to shift gears?

What Siv said ^^^.

Just for further clarification- pH4.6 is the absolute minimum for licensed food processors. For most home sauce makers, they should go for pH 4.0 or lower just for a margin of error. With a pH below 4.0 AND using the hot fill/hold process, the bottles are shelf stable until opened. After opening, the sauces should be refrigerated.

Vinegar and citrus juices are often used to lower the pH of sauces, which is 'acidified' as opposed to acidic. Cucumbers soaked in vinegar ( aka pickles) are acidified, lemons are acidic. If the item being preserved does not have natural acidity (like peppers, onions and garlic) and you do not ADD acid to the item, it must be pressure canned.

Side Note- tomatoes used to be considered safe to can using a boiling water bath as they had a good amount of natural acidity in them. Over the years, tomatoes have been crossed and hybridized etc to REDUCE the natural acidity. Most varieties available now have lower acidity than their predecessors. Most extension services and canning guides now say to pressure can... or add some citric acid powder to each jar for boiling water bath processing.

That is definitely not true. As a canner and one who follows ONLY safe and current tested recipes for all (tomatoes included) there is both water-bath and pressure canning options available. BOTH require acidification in either method to be safe shelf stable products. The pressure canning method basically mimics the water bath processing, but with shorter times at pressure canning temps. Example: I can either do Raw Packed Tomato w/ no added liquid for 95 minutes in the water bath (at my altitude) OR 25 in the pressure canner at 15 lbs. pressure. I prefer to pressure can vs getting a huge pot boiling first and then processing 95 minutes; it is just easier and faster for me. See the NCHFP or USDA websites for either/or method or any current Ball Book. Other countries have other methods, but as for the U.S. this is it for up to date methods.

 

[Marturo]

Side Note- tomatoes used to be considered safe to can using a boiling water bath as they had a good amount of natural acidity in them. Over the years, tomatoes have been crossed and hybridized etc to REDUCE the natural acidity. Most varieties available now have lower acidity than their predecessors. Most extension services and canning guides now say to pressure can... or add some citric acid powder to each jar for boiling water bath processing.

I read that. Wonder if that includes Heirloom tomatoes as well?

 

[Tybo]

That is definitely not true. As a canner and one who follows ONLY safe and current tested recipes for all (tomatoes included) there is both water-bath and pressure canning options available. BOTH require acidification in either method to be safe shelf stable products. The pressure canning method basically mimics the water bath processing, but with shorter times at pressure canning temps. Example: I can either do Raw Packed Tomato w/ no added liquid for 95 minutes in the water bath (at my altitude) OR 25 in the pressure canner at 15 lbs. pressure. I prefer to pressure can vs getting a huge pot boiling first and then processing 95 minutes; it is just easier and faster for me. See the NCHFP or USDA websites for either/or method or any current Ball Book. Other countries have other methods, but as for the U.S. this is it for up to date methods.

Are you saying that anything that is pressure canned has to be acidified?

 

[Downriver]

...That is definitely not true.

And what is NOT true, exactly?

 

[salsalady]

Are you saying that anything that is pressure canned has to be acidified?

I am learning the new site. I was trying to quote

That is definitely not true. As a canner and one who follows ONLY safe and current tested recipes for all (tomatoes included) there is both water-bath and pressure canning options available. BOTH require acidification in either method to be safe shelf stable products. The pressure canning method basically mimics the water bath processing, but with shorter times at pressure canning temps. Example: I can either do Raw Packed Tomato w/ no added liquid for 95 minutes in the water bath (at my altitude) OR 25 in the pressure canner at 15 lbs. pressure. I prefer to pressure can vs getting a huge pot boiling first and then processing 95 minutes; it is just easier and faster for me. See the NCHFP or USDA websites for either/or method or any current Ball Book. Other countries have other methods, but as for the U.S. this is it for up to date methods.

Acidification is not required when pressure canning. I just checked Ball Fresh Preserving to make sure as regulation do change.
Pressure canning green beans- green beans, water, salt (opt). Corn also lists just water and opt salt for pressure canning.

Interestingly....for tomatoes, both BWB and PC list using citric acid or lemon juice.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

It's true you don't need to acidify for pressure canning, but for hot sauce you should if you want it to last forever (like hot sauce does). Otherwise, you open it, and it's going to go as fast as tomato sauce.

 

[salsalady]

Hi everyone!

I have been carefully reading the pinned post "Making Hot Sauce 101" which suggests that hot fill/hold method is the most common method for hot sauce makers. This method definitely appeals to me the most however upon googling further about the hot filling method, I see articles like this (https://www.pickyourown.org/cannersnotrecommended.htm) which states that inversion canning is NOT safe.

This makes me super confused, the "Making Hot Sauce 101" guide was published in 2012, is it outdated now?

How come there are so many articles like the one above? At first I thought maybe it is because people are talking about inversion canning for jams or pickles and not sauces, but it does mention things like tomato sauce as well.

Am I wrong to assume that inversion canning and hot filling is the same thing? If so, how is it different?

Further insight would be very much appreciated, thank you!

To get back to the OP....The methods listed in the linked article are NOT Hot Fill Hold of a low pH sauce in a woozy bottle. They are basically talking about canning home fruits and VEGETABLES with various boiling water bath options. (in a dishwasher?!?!??? REALLY?? That does not get even REMOTELY hot enough for processing! :shakehead Veggies do not have a lot of natural acidity, so processing green beans or corn in a BWB is an instant recipe for disaster.

The Hot Fill Hold process for hot sauces is for sauces that have a pH below 4.0, the bottles are filled with the heated sauce, when the sauce cools, it creates a vacuum (like when using BWB with peaches [which generally have a fairly low pH and are safe to process that way]) It is the combination of pH, temp and process that makes it safe. If any of those things are out of whack, the product won't be safe. The INVERT part of it is for the heated sauce to come in contact with the inside of the cap and neck and kill the Nasties.

If the pH is over 4.6 and it is HFH, it is not safe. If the pH is marginal but it isn't heated and packed hot, it is not safe.

Even sauces with pH's in the 3.8-4.5 range that have been properly HFH packed, can spoil after opening and not refrigerated.

SauerKraut and Kimchee are both fermented to achieve a low acid environment where it can be stored for extended period of time under refrigeration. However...if you leave the kraut or kimchee out on the counter it will rot/mold.
hope this helps~
SL

 

[salsalady]

It's true you don't need to acidify for pressure canning, but for hot sauce you should if you want it to last forever (like hot sauce does). Otherwise, you open it, and it's going to go as fast as tomato sauce.

Exactly. But that is also another option for the maker to consider.

If they pressure can their hot sauce without any acidity (vinegar, etc) When it is opened, it is basically like a jar of tomatoes with onions and garlic (or whatever). It will spoil in the fridge in 4-5 days.

We are talking about a couple different topics, one being the OP asking why those listed canning methods are not good. My reply is that those canning methods do not apply to a properly constructed hot sauce recipe which would have low pH and HFH processing.

A hot sauce with low pH can be BWB or pressure canned in mason jars. The critical issue is the pH. The examples in the article seemed to be talking about vegetables with no acidity trying to be processed in a DW, BWB, or simple pour hot liquid over/cap/invert.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

I love how you reined it back on topic. The new SL?

 

[salsalady]

Huh? What? That wasn't me....imposter!!!

 

[Siv]

Pressure canning and water bath canning are different things. It's not just time, it's also temperature. A water bath at 100C will need a certain amount of time for the product in that water to get to 100C. With a water bath you can only ever get your product up to a max of 100C as beyond that the water evaporates.

Pressure canning allows you to achieve much higher water temperatures:

At 15bar, you can get your product up to 200C. I'd wager that something pressure canned at 200C for sufficient time will essentially sterilize most anything... It also allows you to get your product to 100C much faster and will allow it to get to temperatures far beyond that if you give it enough time.