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hydroponic Why Hydroponics ?

Gargoyle91

Gargoyle91

I've been researching Hydro set ups planning on building a deep water and an NTF system this weekend looking at the nutrient needs/changing once a week and cost of nutrients power and water it doesn't seem very cost effective ? Going to be an outdoor greenhouse grow, Am I misunderstanding something or just looking at it from the outside in (My 1st hydro attempt) ?
 
nobody does DWC on a large scale. its not cost effective labor wise or cost wise. weed growers use this system because a small number of plants yield a profit.

the larger the scale the hydrosystem the simpler it tends to be... most large scale systems are just fertigation setups that push fertilized water out out to drip emitters. the mediums can be anything from rockwool to rice hulls.

NFT can be used on small rooted plants like lettuces etc, but not shit like peppers.

hydroponic soil less systems can be very cost effective, its just a matter of how you want to grow shit.

you can pull off a little 100 plant CRF grow, with a tap water irrigation system for like 300 bucks easily... not including the medium. a sack of osmocote pro is like 100 bucks at my local place.

going up a little more for like 600 bucks you can get a pair of dosatrons... good for thousands of plants.(they dont really make any "small" dosatrons).

you can DIY a system together like i did... and simply pump nutrient solution from a reservoir. good pump will be like 100 bucks + irrigation timer and irrigation emitters etc ... probably 300 bucks or thereabouts.
nutrients dont cost much. bottled nutrients do, but nobody with half a brain uses bottled nutrients at large scales. it costs too much.

what people use is sacs of fertilizer salts.... calcinit, MKP, DKP, DAP, potassium nitrate... chelates, epsom salt etc. these are far far cheaper on a per gallon basis.
 
I concur.  Not doing hydro yet, but I am now mixing my own ferts.
 
Bought a cheap 0.01g accuracy scale, and about $100 in salts.  Will make enough ferts to last me a long time! 
 
I do plan on getting a simple NFT hydro setup soon once finances stabilize a bit more.  Only 8-16 sq ft though, and lettuce for now.  I figured I would start easy and work my way up.
 
Once you see how fast stuff grows in hydro compared to traditional growing methods you will understand why people do it. Plus once you get everything dialed in it's actually less work, most of the stuff is automated & you just have to keep an eye on EC, pH & water level. 
 
Also for a greenhouse grow look into something like a dutch bucket recirculating drip system. Dutch buckets do pretty great with long-term large fruiting crops like peppers & tomatoes. DWC is fine for a couple plants but anything more than that & it becomes a huge pain in the ass. 
 
BTW, I have found I can recreate just about any recipe fairly accurately with the following:
Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Ammonium Sulphate
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Sulphate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Plantex CSM-B
Boric Acid
 
first two cannabis plants i ever grew out here in colorado were skunk #1 in hydro buckets, amazing yields and results but didn't care for it after it smoked.  I prefer organic is soil.  Dry weight was close to 16 ounces on two plants under 2 400 watt hps lights.  
 
jedisushi06 said:
first two cannabis plants i ever grew out here in colorado were skunk #1 in hydro buckets, amazing yields and results but didn't care for it after it smoked.  I prefer organic is soil.  Dry weight was close to 16 ounces on two plants under 2 400 watt hps lights.  
Click to expand...
 
I dunno about weed but I noticed no difference in flavor between peppers grown in hydro or soil. 
 
don't have to learn biological processes / soil building.
simply add nutrients to water and deliver it to roots in someway
dry hydro nutrients bought in bulk and mixed are about 2-4 cents per mixed gallon...
then you just need your usually 1 part medium (water, coco, rockwool) and you're ready to go.
 
each piece is simple making the system very easy to plan / recreate / control 
 
why hydro? speed
 
better question: why shouldn't i do hydro?
because if your PH is out, or your nutrient too strong/weak or your temperature gets too hot and you get root rot if will be slower than if you had done soil
 
 
outdoor u should stay away from both DWC and NFT
DWC will require lots of air(u have no idea how noisy and expensive all those air pumps will be to run-seriously so much air)
2nd issue you will need a water chiller(easily a few hundred bucks)
NFT is the same issue only depending on the length of the pipes you will heat the water as it travels through and be cooking roots by the end on the channel
 
if you want to try hydro i suggest you try a smal( 4 plants) flood and drian sytem. either with coco on a timed cycle or with hydroton using a bell syphon or timed
 
or go with a constant circulating system also with hydroton
 
 
after u figure it out u can scale it up or likely decide to just do soil
 
while i agree once you dial it in hydro is easier but outdoors u will always battle the heat
 
good luck
 
I have run a 6 plant system ebb&flow and the same system modified for NFT in a greenhouse. Will continue to use NFT as it is so simple and no effort what so ever. I ignore PH and exact numbers for EC. I'm sure that if I could be bothered doing anything but dosing the approximate amount of nutes in my water barrel I could get much better results but I get more than enough as it is.
I have seen a few other growers in my neighborhood using soil and my plants produce tons more peppers. Main issue is that NFT is slow to start, I have a very short season, as they don't start growing until roots are well formed but once that happens you can almost see them grow.
 
To me this is a hobby so I don't much care if my peppers end up costing more or less depending on how I grow them as long as I have fun :)
 
Scuba_Steve said:
BTW, I have found I can recreate just about any recipe fairly accurately with the following:
Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Ammonium Sulphate
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Sulphate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Plantex CSM-B
Boric Acid
Click to expand...
 
CSM+B has boron added, thats why they add the "+B" to the name. why are you adding boric acid too?
 
you should always have an lb or so of calcium chloride on hand imho... good for formulations requiring that 30mg/l bump of calcium. cant add lots, but its a good way to add calcium without the nitrogen.
 
and for the unitiated... make sure you get proper 100% soluble potassium sulfate. the organic potassium sulfate is shit. turbid and unreliable to the extreme.  you want the Ultrasol or haifa stuff. i think yara sells potassium sulfate, but its a field grade? IDK the only yara stuff i use in my ferts is the calcinit. everything else is haifa and everris.
 
this stuff is sometimes sold as SOP(sulfate of potash) just make sure its stated as 100% soluble or 100% water compatable or some shit like that.
 
I add boric acid because while plantex contains boron, it doesn't have enough of it. I am adding a very small quantity of acid.

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Scuba_Steve said:
I add boric acid because while plantex contains boron, it doesn't have enough of it. I am adding a very small quantity of acid.

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Click to expand...
 
interesting. sounds like a PITA to be honest. 
 
are you dissolving the boric acid in a stock solution priror to using it? i ask because the quantites are so small... you would need a real good scale to measure it properly, or be mixing a real big quantity of fertilizer. 
 
i stopped using CSM+b owing to its cost. what are you paying per lb if you dont mind me asking?
 
i use STEM now, but stems higher in copper than id like. STEM feels like an inferior preparation to me... almost like its intended for use in lawns or somethign like that. it feels like it needs another pass through a mill or something. some of the mix can be quite granular compared to the CSMB iused to buy.
 
its high in iron which is fine... what ever, but the high copper contant is annoying and unnecessary imo. its not toxic or anything,  i dont think its ok to introduce more copper than you need to... its a fairly serious environmental contaminant.
 
I weigh out enough plantex to make 200g and mix the additional boric acid in. Then I use that bag to make smaller batches. I believe I paid about $20 a lb. I figure a lb will last forever though.

I looked up Stem, but it always made something too far out of whack for me. Plantex gets everything really close.

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Scuba_Steve said:
I weigh out enough plantex to make 200g and mix the additional boric acid in. Then I use that bag to make smaller batches. I believe I paid about $20 a lb. I figure a lb will last forever though.

I looked up Stem, but it always made something too far out of whack for me. Plantex gets everything really close.

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Click to expand...
 
 
i see.
 
yea that sounds like what i used to pay... i bought it from some aquarium supply store? i bought a lb too... but yea i ran out after like 2 years?
STEM is like 5lbs a pound max... i bought a 5lb jar of it for like 50 bucks?( shipping was a bitch).  my local fert place sells 25lb bags of stem for 100 dollars which is very high from what i understand.  you can get a 25lb bag for like 60 bucks online somewhere. shipping? no clue.
 
yea STEM is not a perfect match for the resh profile, but you have to keep in mind the resh profile is listing ideal minimums... or what the plants need to be healthy + a little margin.
you can give them more and even a bit less to a certain extent without any issues what so ever.
 
the resh profile is made from individual additions, which is why he could taylor the micronutrients to exactly what he wanted. this is the cheapest way, but you need to be a seriously big grower to justify such a hassle and upfront cost.
 
i think my copper contant comes out to like .25mg/l? idk id have to check. but .25 would be how much copper i have to deal with in order to hit he iron. 
 
i suppose one could use less STEM... ameliorating the copper excess, and simply add back the iron EDTA, but ive never had an issue.
 
I bought mine off of eBay, which is where I got just about everything else.

As for my potassium sulphate, all it lists is the guaranteed analysis. Says soluble potash k2o 53%, sulfur s 13%. It is from greenway biotech.

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Scuba_Steve said:
I bought mine off of eBay, which is where I got just about everything else.

As for my potassium sulphate, all it lists is the guaranteed analysis. Says soluble potash k2o 53%, sulfur s 13%. It is from greenway biotech.

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Click to expand...
 
i was not suggesting your potassium sulfate was bad, but that it can be, especially if you opt for "organic".
 
it should be plainly obivious if the potassium sulfate is of good quality. it will dissolve completely and without turbidity. if you had a bad bag you would have noticed it already... even if you did not notice the immediate turbidity, you would notice a film of material on the bottom of the tanks. not a scale, but a powdery film of insoluble shit.
 
this organic potash is probably 100% fine for field crops or in soil mixes, just not for fertigation or hydroponic systems.
 
On a small scale, Hydo/DWC regular changes can be useful instead of wasteful... if you use that 'extra' water, which is still nutrient rich, to water your outdoor ornamentals that would otherwise get neglected :)
 
Kratky system is cheaper (no pumps, no air). I'm testing some plants, this

079f81645d80d6f36939ceb37758ef46.jpg


is a Rocoto 91cm wide. I took this picture on 04/14/2016, seed started on 01/08/2016.
 
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