overwintering Winter-Summer in OZ "Comparison" / Aussie Blabberers

[gasificada]

Add some pea straw or some form of organic mulch to build up the humus layer this adds in aeration and stops compacting of the soil as quickly.

Do you just dig that into the surface too? And roughly how long should it take to do it's thing? (I know type of material will probably play a role)

Hoping to be able to plant out in a months time.

Good news is the ground is loaded with worms. That should speed things up a little, eh?

 

[Trippa]

The thing with pea straw is that it won't really break down quickly at all which is why its great for clay soils. Finer organics will break down quicker but that is where your naked farmer stuff comes in. Just work the pea straw into the root zone area (top 25-30cm) along with your other organic compost and let it sit for the month. Also make sure you mulch it to stop the clay recompacting from sun and rain.

 

[gasificada]

At this point, I've only made it down about 30cm!

Sounds like you know what you're talking about, Trips... and in which case, also sounds like a plan! Just out of curiousity though, where would one obtain this pea straw? And what are your suggestions on a good mulch?

Thinking about it now, with all the amendments I've mixed in, I hope I haven't messed up and altered anything for worse. Despite the fact it is hard clay, chillies go off in it! I know clay is generally rich as hell... but I would have thought it to be too hard for chillies. But apparently not:

(the Wasps)

Since I've added a whole bunch of different stuff, would now be a good time to test pH maybe and make necessary adjustments if required you reckon? Or should I give things time to start breaking down? Just a bit concerned if I have to adjust pH, it's gonna push the planned plant out time back even further (waiting for pH altering amendments to start taking effect).

Considering getting the soil tested too at some stage to check for lack and/or over abundance of any nutes.

Also considering this stuff here: http://www.fcrd.com.au/

I want this soil to one day be the richest, most bad-ass soil ever!

 

[Trippa]

http://www.rpmulching.com.au/Products/

Lucerne mulch will be similar and stick around like a pea-straw and feed the garden at the same time. Not sure if you can find pea straw mulch around here in qld now that I looked

 

[megamoo]

I don't think I got the hang of replying to people's posts yet haha

I'm just happy to be included

Wish I could offer advice gas but everywhere I've been in Perth is sand.

 

[MiLK_MaN]

I topped up some of the garden beds today and took some pictures while doing so.

Here's a pic of the garden bed post plants being ripped up, you can tell that it's shrunk significantly as when I planted in the beds they were right at the top.

Now for a layer of Sheep Manure that I purchased only today. 25 bags @ $6 a bag.

Next is Coco Peat from Bunnings.

Sprinkling of Organic Xtra, which is a blend of pelleted composted chicken manure and a bunch of other stuff.

And topped off with Sugar Cane Mulch.

So 2 garden beds down, another 4 to go. Probably going to leave two of the beds full of plants from last season, one of the Asian Birdseyes should be alright and I'm hoping a bed of Bhut Jolokia's will make it through the cold winter mornings.

 

[Mezo]

Harden the f**k up Princess.

Mezo. :-)

 

[Trippa]

Looking top class milkman ... can't wait to see how those jalapeno htms go in those beds ...

 

[MiLK_MaN]

I think I have about 4 or 5 different Jalapeno varieties I want to grow this year, will be good comparing them all.

 

[Lavatung]

I just tried to respond to megamoos post. But my comment ended up in the middle of megas post instead of at the bottom. Anywho, I was saying how I too have giant weed munching aphids.

 

[gasificada]

Looking good, Milko! So inspired to build a raised right now (just let me get my other project done first though!). Does the coir do alright? I've used it myself in potting mixes up until recently but stopped as I hear it contains high levels of salt. Not sure if it has affected my plants or not but trying out peat moss as an alternative ATM to see if it makes a difference.

Cheers, Trips! I will track down some Lucrene this week. I recall seeing the stuff somewhere recently but can't remember if it was at Bunnings, Masters or a at a nursery somewhere. Reckon just use the same stuff as a surface mulch too?

Lava, just make sure what you write is after the [ /quote] tag and it'll work for you.

You can edit the text in between the [ quote] boxes too if you want (say if you wanted to reply to just a specific part of what someone said).

Example:

[quote="Lavatung, post: 671004"]
But my comment ended up in the middle of megas post instead of at the bottom.
[/quote]

Put your reply here.

Will appear as:

But my comment ended up in the middle of megas post instead of at the bottom.

Put your reply here.






I should've just chopped the bloody thing off and kept working, eh, Meez?

 

[megamoo]

I've been reading up on coco coir. Just in case you didn't know... it's made from coconut husks which are collected near the ocean where they soak up salt from sea water- not good for plants. For hydroponic purposes you need the fine grain and have to wash it several times. You can buy it prewashed but if you are getting the expanding brick stuff for gardens its probably salty.

I'm beginning to think that may have played a part in my plant dying disaster last season - buildup of salts causing nute lockout. That was all in pots though. If you are using it layered in the ground or a large bed I don't think it will be a problem. In pots you have to flush it through with a lot of clean water.


Edit: I sort of had to say that cos I've read so much about coco lately. Also learned a whole lot about how to grow pot

another edit: You can do a simple test if you have an ec/ppm meter to see how clean it is.

 

[Lavatung]

Put your reply here.
[/code]

Cheers Gas!

 

[Pablo_h]

I've been reading up on coco coir. Just in case you didn't know... it's made from coconut husks which are collected near the ocean where they soak up salt from sea water- not good for plants. For hydroponic purposes you need the fine grain and have to wash it several times. You can buy it prewashed but if you are getting the expanding brick stuff for gardens its probably salty.

I'm beginning to think that may have played a part in my plant dying disaster last season - buildup of salts causing nute lockout. That was all in pots though. If you are using it layered in the ground or a large bed I don't think it will be a problem. In pots you have to flush it through with a lot of clean water.


Edit: I sort of had to say that cos I've read so much about coco lately. Also learned a whole lot about how to grow pot

another edit: You can do a simple test if you have an ec/ppm meter to see how clean it is.

Coco coir is awesome.. for germinating.
Go back to the beginning of this thread, nova was using coco coir for that.

Last year I used some coco coir in my buckets, that was a bad move. (edit: not much, maybe 1/4-1/2L in a 8L bucket?). It holds moisture very well (which is why it is good for germinating), problem is on a 40C day you are just going to have a moist and hot root zone, as water holds the heat. Works fine if the buckets are kept in the shade (but then you get minimal plant growth), and what you really want is free draining, maximum sunlight even if that means you have to water the plants twice a day in summer. Chilli plants really really and I can't stress this enough, really like dry roots.
So I'm not putting coir in my potting mix again, but I'd use it for germination at any time, it rocks!
Just got to get those seedlings out ASAP into a drier potting mix with perlite as soon as they have popped.
I did some experiments even using perlite in coco coir.
I normally bottom water babies to prevent compaction, coco coir even with perlite is too absorbent, a few minutes of watering means they will be drenched for weeks with this cold weather. Need to keep seedings dry, especially if it's the current low winter temps!
But coco coir is the best germination medium I have found, just need to repot straight away (I found the same with jiffies too for the same reasons), but like jiffies if you are careful you can work around it, I'd rather not have the hassle with either though.

Moisture is the enemy for chillies, that's why people spend the big dollars on decent potting mix or perlite. Last year while most seedlings in normal potting mix started dying I had a seedling do very well, even though it was outside in the spring constant rain. That's because I put that one in 50% ! perlite.
They want to be dry!
Every time last year when I was learning , if I saw a seedling struggle I'd just pot it up, 70% of the time it would improve, it didn't need the bigger pot, it just needed to be drier! Over watering is the #1 issue when it's not 40C for me. #2 pests, #3 virus/bacteria/disease, only #4 ferts/nutes, so it's important not to overwater.

But then again coir is what you want when trying to germinate, something that stays moist for a long time and doesn't have chunky bits like SRM does. Since switching to coco coir for germination I've been way more successful that I was with potting mix, seed raising mix, jiffies, paper towels in bags or containers.

The coco coir in my pots last year was equally good and bad. Good means I didn't have to water every day, but they still struggled in the sun and the high moisture level just helped the root cook more evenly. And as soon as the rains come, every plant was doomed as moisture retention was too high, so I'm not using coir again with mature plants, rather just make them really good drainage and water them twice a day.

Coir is good though, helps germination and just recycle it. I germinate in coir but pull the seedling out ASAP and stick it in potting mix, recycle the coir for the next seeds. That's what I'm doing from now on.

 

[megamoo]

You are right Pablo but technically chillies don't like roots being dry as much as oxygenated. You can grow super huge chillie plants with all of their roots sitting in a deep water culture bucket and they will live because its always oxygenated. In coco coir the water that is retained so well by the coco looses its dissolved oxygen, becomes stagnant and drowns the roots by denying them the opportunity to get oxygen.

If you are introducing oxygen to the root zone then it will be ok with a bit of moisture but you are right that high temps and moisture equals mould and disease as well.

Many of the coir bricks available are sold with soil wetter added so they are even harder to dry out.

Like you said it is just more practical to use a mix that drains well.


Edit: Also, one problem leads to another. A plant with drowning roots becomes stressed and more susceptible to disease, the moisture is a good habitat for disease and pests will attack a stressed plant first over a healthy one. Water that doesn't drain builds up fertilizer salts and causes nutrient lockout.
So yes good draining soil mix is THE most important thing to get right.

 

[Pablo_h]

Yeah "overwatering" doesn't strictly exist, as hydro growing works fine, it is lack of air to the roots that is the problem. Thats why I tried bottom watering with coir first, 1) so the top isn't saturated and with perlite air could get in there, 2) to stop compaction (lets air in there), 3) prevent stuff like disease, fungus, 'damping off', fungus gnats etc, 4) to promote the roots to grow down where the moisture is.
Despite all that, coco coir with perlite would get to soggy and keep that wet bottom for ages.

So, great to germinate in, bad to grow in is my opinion. Probably many plants that coco coir may work well with, but chillies like it very dry, they get root rot easily need plenty of air to the roots (or in other words like dry soil and hate over watering).
Last season I used 72c 9L buckets and some coco coir in the potting mix with added perlite. I thought the coir would help retain moisture on the hot days and more importantly help retain and ferts I watered in. But it did more harm that good, regular potting mix hold too much moisture by itself anyway, they often contain soil wetting agents as it is anyway.
So no coir, and more perlite in the future for me.

Also considering buying bunnings brand tote bags (the greeny thing they sell instead of plastic bags, and their bags are way bigger than coles etc).
I need to pot up a few overwintered plants that have survived in my 9L buckets. I might try the cheap arse version of a 'smartpot', and try grow a plant or two in a shopping bag.
I'm thinking the plant would get more air, and on a hot day I could just lightly spray the outside for the roots to cool with the evaporative effect.

 

[megamoo]

I read an article on gravity flow potential vs capilliary action from a link posted somewhere on this site. In very simplified terms it said that the size of the particles in a mix determine how well it drains due to capilliary action, and it has much less to do with the gravity of water flowing through.

So if you put a layer of large rocks at the bottom of a pot, and then another mix on top of that thinking that it will help drainage, all it does is effectively shrink the size of the pot to the top part, and it doesn't assist draining at all. It even said that you can use a wick, like some rope sticking out of the bottom of the pot and that will drain the pot through capilliary action. It will fix a waterlogged pot but if you already know this beforehand you should just make up a different mix.

The best mix for drainage is something like vermiculite with a consistently large enough particle mix. A mix of perlite and soil needs to be a majority of perlite to increase drainage.

I did about 50 buckets last season and some had compost, coir heavy mix and some had perlite mixed in, some with no coir only soil and tons of perlite, and they all died.

 

[geeme]

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide with that?

 

[megamoo]

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide with that?

Like hydroponics that would work to oxygenate the roots but for a large number of pots outside on reticulation it's too hard. The effect of H2O2 doesn't last too long. You'd have to mix it up and apply it every few days, and I'm not sure but I think it also it kills any beneficial microbes that are present.

I'm actually looking into getting a a fertilizer injector so I can feed and water at the same time from a drip system.

 

[Pablo_h]

That wicking thing is very interesting mega. Makes sense.
I always thought as vermiculite's job as being to hold moisture. The stuff here is expensive and probably too fine though anyway. I used coir to do the job I thought vermiculite did as it was a budget option, ie hold moisture and nutes. But coir and vermiculite really don't do the same thing.

You're right about perlite too, you need heaps, a bit of perlite randomly scattered doesn't really do a lot, even I know you need heaps and heaps of it now, and I'm wondering how economical that's going to be seeing as while it's cheap on ebay, it's not cheap to be delivered to Perth.
But that wicking thing makes me even more interested in using greeny reusable shopping bags, I wonder how well they'd help. Got to look at them more is see how well they breathe, absorb, wick and evaporate, and look at various other container and potting mix options available here. Not going to do anything on a big scale, just learn and experiment so I know more what to do after I move. Maybe I could take some plants with me, I hope so but not guaranteed which is why i'm not going to do more than one or two experiments in the meantime..