AlabamaJack
Extreme Member
lol...yeah, I reckon...I don't suppose you can teach an old dog new tricks....I am gonna stay just where I am with my grow....good luck to you...
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3 gallon maximum
- Thread starter Swartmamba
- Start date
I've done pretty well with my small pots. 3gallon that are about 2/3 full. 10 - 30 pods on each plant average, flowering like crazy. I'll have plenty as long as they ripen in time.
I wanted to try a ton of varieties so that forced smaller pots. Looking forward to seeing my overwinters in 7 gallon pots next season.
Sometimes it's a would if you could situation.
Gotta make the most of what you got!
And Dave2000 - I bet air pots are phenomenal for areas where it rains a ton. It's kinda like my mix (5-1-1) in that here, where it's rained more than it's sunned, it works great for superior drainage, however, in say Las Vegas, you'd be screwed in less than a swimming pool of the shit because it'd dry in a blink.
Big picture thinking right there.
I wanted to try a ton of varieties so that forced smaller pots. Looking forward to seeing my overwinters in 7 gallon pots next season.
Sometimes it's a would if you could situation.
Gotta make the most of what you got!
And Dave2000 - I bet air pots are phenomenal for areas where it rains a ton. It's kinda like my mix (5-1-1) in that here, where it's rained more than it's sunned, it works great for superior drainage, however, in say Las Vegas, you'd be screwed in less than a swimming pool of the shit because it'd dry in a blink.
Big picture thinking right there.
Noah Yates said:
Look at a plant's roots. Where do they go? If they want to dry out then they will go to the top of the soil or even above it. They don't. They go down into soil where it stays damp. I'm not suggesting you can't get a good grow with air pots, rather that given a particular amount of soil, an air pot reduces the available soil, not increasing it in some mythical way.
In regular pots the roots go down the sides because they don't dry out, hit the bottom, go across the bottom. This is a larger root mass than just growing hairs in the middle instead because the plant had less available damp soil.
If what is important is to have the soil dry out then water less often, but no, most plants do NOT "like" to have their roots alternately soak and dry out. It is not best to make a mound planting in the ground except to deal with excessive rain, people merely do this if their soil is poor and/or to manage rain and watering so the plants aren't excessively watered, not because the plant would be better with a temporary water shortage between waterings.
If you're in an area where it rains a lot then that's an exception, then water is out of the hands of the grower and an air pot makes perfect sense, but that's not how the pots are being marketed or suggested.
I would never advocate the use of a small air pot for anything but small indoor plants. I recommend air pots that will hold 10-40 US gallons worth of soil (if filled to the top). In this case you are getting space for large root balls that will dry out properly because of the porous walls of the pot. After trying air-pots i will never go back. Its that obvious a difference. Classic "results speak for themselves" situation.
However, as mentioned, your success using air pots does depend on your ability to provide water in regular interavals.
It really does seem as though you have never used an air pot.
Given the same environmental and soil conditions, I would wager that an experiment involving two clones of the same plant--- one in a 30 gallon air-pot and the other in a standard 30 gallon plastic planter with holes in the bottom--- would yield data confirming the benefit of air-pot technology. The air-pot would out-grow the solid planter every time. You may have to provide more water to the air-pot, but the actual plant will be more robust, healthy, and vigorous than its counter-part.
I want to mention that clay pots are pseudo-airpots, because they do have micropores, and they tend to heat up in the sun, which contributes to the drying---->>>aerating---->>>self-pruning effect for which air-pots are sought after.
However, as mentioned, your success using air pots does depend on your ability to provide water in regular interavals.
It really does seem as though you have never used an air pot.
Given the same environmental and soil conditions, I would wager that an experiment involving two clones of the same plant--- one in a 30 gallon air-pot and the other in a standard 30 gallon plastic planter with holes in the bottom--- would yield data confirming the benefit of air-pot technology. The air-pot would out-grow the solid planter every time. You may have to provide more water to the air-pot, but the actual plant will be more robust, healthy, and vigorous than its counter-part.
I want to mention that clay pots are pseudo-airpots, because they do have micropores, and they tend to heat up in the sun, which contributes to the drying---->>>aerating---->>>self-pruning effect for which air-pots are sought after.
^ In that case I am more apt to agree, that once you reach a size over 10 gallons you have enough soil that the drawbacks reduce. However, in a larger pot it's also much easier to regulate moisture level so the need for an air pot to do that is even lower. It's still marketing, plants evolved to survive in the ground and do best with roots that go deep rather than seeking dry soil.
I have not used an official "air pot" but I have used plenty of pots with cracks, holes, chunks missing to the point where they looked like swiss cheese which IMO is the same difference.
IMO it's still an issue of water management, either too much rain or people overwatering instead of giving a plant the right amount of water. There's a middle ground between watering too much and waiting till a plant is drooping and not absorbing any 'nutes because there's no water to facilitate that.
This is where we disagree. Air-pots do not out grow solid planters every single time, nor any time except when the plant was being excessively watered or rained upon, or poor drainage soil which still results in excessive water retention. The largest plants approaching the size of trees are grown in the ground with no drying of the soil around the lower portion of the roots.
I have not used an official "air pot" but I have used plenty of pots with cracks, holes, chunks missing to the point where they looked like swiss cheese which IMO is the same difference.
IMO it's still an issue of water management, either too much rain or people overwatering instead of giving a plant the right amount of water. There's a middle ground between watering too much and waiting till a plant is drooping and not absorbing any 'nutes because there's no water to facilitate that.
Noah Yates said:
This is where we disagree. Air-pots do not out grow solid planters every single time, nor any time except when the plant was being excessively watered or rained upon, or poor drainage soil which still results in excessive water retention. The largest plants approaching the size of trees are grown in the ground with no drying of the soil around the lower portion of the roots.
The thing is... air-pots will allow you to turbo charge your plants, because you can water/feed more often and the roots get to breathe O2. In this way, air-pots function very much like a hydroponic setup... and most people certainly agree that hydroponics will out-grow soil or soil-less media, in terms of vigor, given the same environmental conditions.
And about the largest plants being grown in-ground... I totally agree with the ground as being the best place for a plant to grow. That is why i dont even use any sort of pots anymore. However, those roots that reach down into the soil for that long-term water are your primary roots. These are highly inefficient types of roots. One of the most awesome benefits of air-pots is this concept of self-pruning, wherein the primary roots communicate that they have run out of ground, which acrivates a process resulting in the formation of networks of secondary roots and fiberous root hairs. These are what you want. Your fiberous roots are extremely efficient at absorbing water, oxygen, and nutrients from the soil.... they are also the structures that form symbiotic relationships with the microbiota in the soil, which feed your plant. In other words.... air-pots are a technology of agricultrue that stimulate your plant to grow more of the better roots. If you have never used an air-pot, then I recommend you try one. You will be amazed.
....Also... even when i am growing in ground, the reason to plant in mounds and raised beds of fluffy O-horizon soil is precisely so that my plant will have a good place to grow those fiberous roots. And, just like air-pots, good top-soil will have such good drainage that it will be nearly impossiblwe to over-water, save a 2 week series of all day rains.
And about the largest plants being grown in-ground... I totally agree with the ground as being the best place for a plant to grow. That is why i dont even use any sort of pots anymore. However, those roots that reach down into the soil for that long-term water are your primary roots. These are highly inefficient types of roots. One of the most awesome benefits of air-pots is this concept of self-pruning, wherein the primary roots communicate that they have run out of ground, which acrivates a process resulting in the formation of networks of secondary roots and fiberous root hairs. These are what you want. Your fiberous roots are extremely efficient at absorbing water, oxygen, and nutrients from the soil.... they are also the structures that form symbiotic relationships with the microbiota in the soil, which feed your plant. In other words.... air-pots are a technology of agricultrue that stimulate your plant to grow more of the better roots. If you have never used an air-pot, then I recommend you try one. You will be amazed.
....Also... even when i am growing in ground, the reason to plant in mounds and raised beds of fluffy O-horizon soil is precisely so that my plant will have a good place to grow those fiberous roots. And, just like air-pots, good top-soil will have such good drainage that it will be nearly impossiblwe to over-water, save a 2 week series of all day rains.
^ To me "turbo charge" a plant is more like colorful marketing than reality. Watering more often is not a good thing, rather maintaining a good moisture level, not too high or low is. The more often you have to water the more often you have too high and too low a moisture level.
Hydro only grows larger because of the additional attention to detail regarding 'nute levels. Self pruning is never a good thing. It's just wasting energy put into roots, while the additional energy that would grow other roots still will. There's no such thing as highly inefficient roots, they grow in response to the nutrients and water they encounter. On the other hand if someone is overwatering and causes root hair rot, then it goes back to the central issue of whether a special pot is needed to prevent over-watering or not.
Where are these supposedly superior plants? I've been very low maintenance this year and didn't even sprout anything till mid April yet at 3.5 mos old...
Hydro only grows larger because of the additional attention to detail regarding 'nute levels. Self pruning is never a good thing. It's just wasting energy put into roots, while the additional energy that would grow other roots still will. There's no such thing as highly inefficient roots, they grow in response to the nutrients and water they encounter. On the other hand if someone is overwatering and causes root hair rot, then it goes back to the central issue of whether a special pot is needed to prevent over-watering or not.
Where are these supposedly superior plants? I've been very low maintenance this year and didn't even sprout anything till mid April yet at 3.5 mos old...
I was just taken aback by your post that I originally quoted. As someone who has never tried an air pot, I dont see how you can justifiably make these claims of chicanery. I would like to point out that I am not a spokesperson for some company that produces porous pots. I am a satisfied customer who is convinced of the efficacy of this agricultural technology. By no means am I saying you are not a skilled grower, or that awesome plants cannot be grown in standard pots. For that matter I would like to clarify that you need skill to use an air-pot properly (it really does require frequent waterings in large volume), and, as such, some people very probably would be better off using standard pots. But what I am saying is that there is no snake-oil business here. Your suggestion is that air-pots are all hype, with no scientific grounding. But yet you admit you havnt even tried to use one. All I am saying is remian open minded and try one out..... your healthy skepticism will be rewarded with even that much greater the pleasure at the surprise of how well your pants do grow. 
Nice plants by the way!!!!
Obviously I am not going to post pictures of my grow to rebut you, because its not a legitimate standard of measure in this context (for a number of reasons). As I say, you would have to have a side-by side experiment with controlled conditions, 2 identical clones of the same phenotype, and a control.
Nice plants by the way!!!!
Obviously I am not going to post pictures of my grow to rebut you, because its not a legitimate standard of measure in this context (for a number of reasons). As I say, you would have to have a side-by side experiment with controlled conditions, 2 identical clones of the same phenotype, and a control.
In cold regions 3 gallon is probably a much wiser choice as you will get more pods earlier, not the same amount in the long run. When you only have 3 months, using hydro nutes and small pots is the ticket.
Noah my basic stance on the air pots is that something else is going wrong if they help, with that something "usually" being poor water regulation and/or drainage. Plus, we've all seen plenty of pics of plants that get as large in regular pots. That's not a scientifically valid comparison but neither is growing in both types of pots in identical conditions otherwise if those conditions include poor water regulation. In other words I could easily cause a condition where air pot plants grew larger, or vice-versa.
Edited for clarity: "Apart from the obvious reason that there is more surface area exposed to the air"... Air pots use more water because they have better roots, "(they have more surface area worth of roots)" Better roots + more water + more nutrients----->>>> Bigger Better plants.
^ They use more water because water vapor is lost from the soil due to the holes in the pot. A better root system doesn't cause a plant to use more water, it's the growth and (leaf) stomata above ground that dictate water consumption through the plant. Think about an overwintered plant with a great root system but the leaves fell off. How much water does it use? Very little.
lol.... this is turning into a ridiculous conversation..... you need to brush up on your plant biology.
ive tried fabric containers. imho a waste of time and money, and lots of good water.
10 gallon grow bags are like 25 cents each...
no discernable difference from my short time with them.
air pots DO NOT use more water because they have better roots, thats retarded. they loose water to the air.
you know how i know? gee on those windy days none of my plants on the fertigation system would have a single drop of runoff.
10 gallon grow bags are like 25 cents each...
no discernable difference from my short time with them.
air pots DO NOT use more water because they have better roots, thats retarded. they loose water to the air.
you know how i know? gee on those windy days none of my plants on the fertigation system would have a single drop of runoff.
No... it works both ways... they both have excellent aeration and better roots... both contribute to the fast drying out time (desired)...... I had already dealt with the obvious in the previous posts. And yes any porous material functiuons as an airpot.... I wholeheartedly endorse people even making their own air-pots rather than buying some way over-priced commodity. And were your 10 gallon air pots 10 trade gallons or US gallons? I once ordered a pack of ten 10gal air pots and I was very dissapointed when they only had a volume of slightly less than 5 US gallons.(which is uselessly small) As I say... air pots are only effective in larger dimensions outdoors. Small air pots are only good indoors or in colder conditions or if you are using an extremely dense media. But as long as we are talking about growing peppers outdoors in full sun, with proper feedings and waterings (basically pepper plants preferred conditions) air pots will produce bigger, better plants faster than standard pots.
^ We will just have to be content with disagreeing, but then I don't agree that a smaller pot will cause more pods or faster pods either unless it's due to using the same amount of fertilizer (or tea, compost, etc.) in both a large and small pot and as a result having a higher nutrient concentration level in the smaller pot, but as with watering it becomes harder to reach an optimal amount without overdoing it, then easier for it to wash away when it rains. To me the only virtue of a smaller pot is it is easier to carry around, easier to find space for inside, and if you buy soil instead of DIY, cheaper to fill.
About the pots, for less than the cost of one air pot I can most definitely grow a 2nd plant and have higher yield between the two than one air pot plant, even if the cost of the air pot is only fabric to DIY. I have never spent a cent on pots. The limit then becomes available space to grow them. What exactly is the virtue in spending more money and more time watering for lower yield?
About the pots, for less than the cost of one air pot I can most definitely grow a 2nd plant and have higher yield between the two than one air pot plant, even if the cost of the air pot is only fabric to DIY. I have never spent a cent on pots. The limit then becomes available space to grow them. What exactly is the virtue in spending more money and more time watering for lower yield?
This is an interesting topic.Dave2000 said:
Having grown many plants in ridiculously small pots i tend to agree that a smaller pot speeds up pod production.
Once i've read on a canna forum that root pressure may induce the plant to think it's gonna die and so it reacts producing seeds as a desperate try to survive (this is a natural survival mechanism).
I don't know if this applies to peppers as well but seems so in my experience.
Yield-wise the bigger the pot the better no contest.
Regarding air pots i've not real experience but they seem useful to limit the rootbound effects, i'd like to give a try to fabric pots (Pepper-Guru glogs show impressive results).
Cya
Datil
I just want to clarify that throughout the entire conversation I was using the term air-pot as a type of pot... not any particular brand.
Great stuff...
all I know is I have never purchased an air pot and have only made my own like I do with most everything...
I have grown with normal pots and my homemade air pots and I notice without a doubt that the plants in the air prune pots have more robust and denser root balls....whatever that means and however that works I will leave it to the pros to debate ...I don't need to convince anyone or be convinced by anyone, that's just my experience...I guess it would be hard either way to say or prove which way is superior unless their is a controlled test but to each their own , if normal pots work best for you, go for it, if air prune pots work best for you then go for it however don't spend $15 on a air pot make your own for an 1/8th of the price...my only point when I first replied was not all "air prune" pot users are "ignorant"....
Ok I'm going to make a few more "air prune" pots now....
all I know is I have never purchased an air pot and have only made my own like I do with most everything...
I have grown with normal pots and my homemade air pots and I notice without a doubt that the plants in the air prune pots have more robust and denser root balls....whatever that means and however that works I will leave it to the pros to debate ...I don't need to convince anyone or be convinced by anyone, that's just my experience...I guess it would be hard either way to say or prove which way is superior unless their is a controlled test but to each their own , if normal pots work best for you, go for it, if air prune pots work best for you then go for it however don't spend $15 on a air pot make your own for an 1/8th of the price...my only point when I first replied was not all "air prune" pot users are "ignorant"....
Ok I'm going to make a few more "air prune" pots now....