Beginner Questions Regarding Start Times

[UrbanNoir75]

I'll preface the glaring noobishness of the following questions by mentioning I have successfully grown and harvested from the same Jalapeno plant for over three years. So I'm not a total noob, I'm just a huge noob. That said, I'm out of my element with the exotic and dangerous species I just ordered. In about 10 days, I'll have seeds from the Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich, Red Savina Habanero (40 total from 2 different sources), Jamaican Yellow Mushroom, Jamaican Chocolate Habanero, and Fatalii.

My plans are to grow 2 each of them all in containers (probably 7 gallon containers per plant max). My current equipment is limited to a germination heating mat, a seed starter tray, potting soil, fertilizer, mulch, neem, nursery pots and the quasi-advantage of being in the relatively hot valley of Northern California (*where the winters are sadly more harsh than in Southern California). I have plans on buying a 400 watt Halide lamp/with hood and ballast in several months.

My question is, can I start any of these seeds now, mid-July? Should I freeze them and wait? I'm itching to get started but not if it's pointless.
Also, I was wondering if it's possible to start them all now, and then around late October when it gets cold, bring them inside and finish them under a Halide lamp? If I opted for the latter, could they be put back outside, effectively making them outside-inside-outside plants?

Any insight here would be much appreciated.

 

[Pepper-Guru]

I'll preface the glaring noobishness of the following questions by mentioning I have successfully grown and harvested from the same Jalapeno plant for over three years. So I'm not a total noob, I'm just a huge noob. That said, I'm out of my element with the exotic and dangerous species I just ordered. In about 10 days, I'll have seeds from the Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich, Red Savina Habanero (40 total from 2 different sources), Jamaican Yellow Mushroom, Jamaican Chocolate Habanero, and Fatalii.

My plans are to grow 2 each of them all in containers (probably 7 gallon containers per plant max). My current equipment is limited to a germination heating mat, a seed starter tray, potting soil, fertilizer, mulch, neem, nursery pots and the quasi-advantage of being in the relatively hot valley of Northern California (*where the winters are sadly more harsh than in Southern California). I have plans on buying a 400 watt Halide lamp/with hood and ballast in several months.

My question is, can I start any of these seeds now, mid-July? Should I freeze them and wait? I'm itching to get started but not if it's pointless.
Also, I was wondering if it's possible to start them all now, and then around late October when it gets cold, bring them inside and finish them under a Halide lamp? If I opted for the latter, could they be put back outside, effectively making them outside-inside-outside plants?

Any insight here would be much appreciated.

Sure man, get them popping! Its already a little past the "prime" time for starting plants, but as you have already stated, you're no stranger to overwintering. Just get em growing and bring em in for the winter. Next year you'll have monsters!

 

[UrbanNoir75]

Sure man, get them popping! Its already a little past the "prime" time for starting plants, but as you have already stated, you're no stranger to overwintering. Just get em growing and bring em in for the winter. Next year you'll have monsters!

Thanks for the feedback. I would say I am kind of a "stranger" to how to deal with these plants come winter. I mean I know what overwintering is for, I've just never done it to any significant degree. I think I brought my Jalapeno plant in a total of 10 days in the span of three winters, just during storms, and then I put it back outside.

Is there an ideal start time for each of these plants? Is it generally the same for all C. chinense?

 

[Prehensile]

So ur gonna have like 40 plants to over winter? I knew there was something else I liked about FL Swamps...

 

[UrbanNoir75]

So ur gonna have like 40 plants to over winter? I knew there was something else I liked about FL Swamps...

Ha, no. "Two each," so about 12 total, two for each variety. I just want to know when the ideal start times are for all of them (i.e. Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich, Red Savina Habanero, Jamaican Yellow Mushroom, Jamaican Chocolate Habanero, and Fatalii)

 

[AlabamaJack]

I just want to know when the ideal start times are for all of them (i.e. Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich, Red Savina Habanero, Jamaican Yellow Mushroom, Jamaican Chocolate Habanero, and Fatalii)

simple answer is chinense species need to be started at least 8 weeks and annuums 6 weeks
before your last average frost date

 

[Avon Barksdale]

If you only had to bring the jalapeno in for 10 days over 3 winters, it doesn't sound like you have much of a winter at all. In that case, you might as well. What kind of temps do you get in the winter?

If you're planning on finishing them off inside, aka ripening pods, you want a high pressure sodium light though, not metal halide. Metal halide has a more blue spectrum for vegetative growth while HPS has a more red spectrum for fruiting. I would go with one with a switchable ballast that allows you to use both MH and HPS bulbs.

Sounds like you have a pretty mild and short winter there, so the overwintering process probably wouldn't be too difficult. They would probably be starting to set pods around the end of the season, you could then move them inside and finish them with an HPS, trim them back, switch to MH and have some nice sized plants to set out early next year. You could then pot those up into some 10+ gallon containers and should have some monster producers for next year. Pests can be a big problem when you move the plants inside though since there won't be any natural predators for mites, aphids, etc.

 

[UrbanNoir75]

If you only had to bring the jalapeno in for 10 days over 3 winters, it doesn't sound like you have much of a winter at all. In that case, you might as well. What kind of temps do you get in the winter?

If you're planning on finishing them off inside, aka ripening pods, you want a high pressure sodium light though, not metal halide. Metal halide has a more blue spectrum for vegetative growth while HPS has a more red spectrum for fruiting. I would go with one with a switchable ballast that allows you to use both MH and HPS bulbs.

Sounds like you have a pretty mild and short winter there, so the overwintering process probably wouldn't be too difficult. They would probably be starting to set pods around the end of the season, you could then move them inside and finish them with an HPS, trim them back, switch to MH and have some nice sized plants to set out early next year. You could then pot those up into some 10+ gallon containers and should have some monster producers for next year. Pests can be a big problem when you move the plants inside though since there won't be any natural predators for mites, aphids, etc.

Appreciate the thorough reply. We do have some sustained chill periods at times, but nothing really gets below 39 F here: (e.g. http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/94598 ) We're in the valley of Nor Cal, so our summers are considerably hotter than those living with sea breeze. Rain and wind storms are the biggest hazards here, rather than temp.

I'm tending toward the scenario you outlined there. I've never done it before, but everything I've heard about these plants is they hate the cold, and if I'm starting them now I don't want to throw away their first few months of growth.

The halide light in question has an HPS bulb that comes with the setup. Do you think 400 watts is enough for 12-14 7-gallon plants? Just writing that now, it sounds like I may need to spring for another lamp.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Appreciate the thorough reply. We do have some sustained chill periods at times, but nothing really gets below 39 F here: (e.g. http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/94598 ) We're in the valley of Nor Cal, so our summers are considerably hotter than those living with sea breeze. Rain and wind storms are the biggest hazards here, rather than temp.

I'm tending toward the scenario you outlined there. I've never done it before, but everything I've heard about these plants is they hate the cold, and if I'm starting them now I don't want to throw away their first few months of growth.

The halide light in question has an HPS bulb that comes with the setup. Do you think 400 watts is enough for 12-14 7-gallon plants? Just writing that now, it sounds like I may need to spring for another lamp.

12-14 7-gallon containers is definitely too much for a 400 watt HID. They cover about 3' x 3', so really it would probably only cover about 4 decent sized, fruiting plants crowded together. A 1000 watt HID would probably be good for up to 9 plants crowded together but that's a lot of money on the electricity bill. 39F is definitely cold for chiles, but wouldn't kill them, just slow them down. With such an early start I don't think that would matter that much. Sounds like you could leave them out almost year around and just watch the weather report and bring them in when it hits 40F or below. Or you could leave some out, and keep some under the light. You could also rotate different plants from outside to under the light, or you could trim the foliage and roots and pot them down to a smaller container and keep them all under the lights until it warms back up some and then put them back outside. You have a lot of options with that long growing season...

 

[Coreyviper]

I am definitely going to be watching this thread because I just started my peppers as well. I'm in Central California, and am wondering what i'm going to when all my plants need to be moved inside when it starts to get cold. I've got 6 seedlings right now, with about 5 more different pepper seeds in the mail as we speak. Good luck my friend!

 

[UrbanNoir75]

12-14 7-gallon containers is definitely too much for a 400 watt HID. They cover about 3' x 3', so really it would probably only cover about 4 decent sized, fruiting plants crowded together. A 1000 watt HID would probably be good for up to 9 plants crowded together but that's a lot of money on the electricity bill. 39F is definitely cold for chiles, but wouldn't kill them, just slow them down. With such an early start I don't think that would matter that much. Sounds like you could leave them out almost year around and just watch the weather report and bring them in when it hits 40F or below. Or you could leave some out, and keep some under the light. You could also rotate different plants from outside to under the light, or you could trim the foliage and roots and pot them down to a smaller container and keep them all under the lights until it warms back up some and then put them back outside. You have a lot of options with that long growing season...

Yeah, I was thinking I might just do a trial and error with this bunch and see what happens planting in July. I'll be sure to save half of my seeds in the freezer and start them in April or May of next year.

Down the the road I might just buy two 400 watt MH/HPS switchable set ups. The lamp hoods themselves provide a decent distribution of light, and I could see them conceivably taking care of 12 plants if placed properly. But as you point out, I may not even need that setup, and at about $450 bucks (for 2 switchable lamps and ballasts) that's getting a bit excessive for an "if," so I'll try this bunch out and see. Thanks much for the insight.

 

[UrbanNoir75]

I am definitely going to be watching this thread because I just started my peppers as well. I'm in Central California, and am wondering what i'm going to when all my plants need to be moved inside when it starts to get cold. I've got 6 seedlings right now, with about 5 more different pepper seeds in the mail as we speak. Good luck my friend!

Hey thanks, mate. You too. If you aren't already, you might consider doing what I'm doing and vacuum sealing and freezing half of your seeds. I have no idea what to expect, and if these plants die on me, I still want to try them come April/May.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

I wouldn't freeze the seeds if you're going to use them within a year, that's definitely not necessary and may decrease germination rates. Just keep them in the refrigerator. I had bhut jolokia, fatalii, and datil seeds I took from pods last year that sat in an open plastic cup on top of my dresser for 6 months at room temperature and they germinated in about 6-10 days at a rate over 90%. I'm not recommending you store them that way by any means, I kind of just forgot about them/was lazy, but they don't go bad that quickly if properly dried. They should be good for a minimum of several years in the fridge.

Also, 2 400 watt HIDs is a pretty large electricity bill, especially in California where electricity is an average of nearly 15 cents per kW/hr from a quick google search. The 400 watt rating is only for the bulbs and doesn't account for power loss through the ballast which is usually something like 10-15% for HID. You can use OHMS law to find the real power consumption if you know the amps of a particular light. OHMS law is volts x amps= watts, so 120 volts x an average figure of 3.8 amps for a 400 watt HID= 456 watts.

456 watts/light x 2 lights x 18 hours/day x 30 days/month x 1 kw/1000 watts x $.15/kw/hr= $73.87 a month. If I had temps that only dropped to 40F in the winter I would probably just buy a greenhouse and grow year around and not even mess with lights, especially with those kinds of electricity prices. For $500 for the lights plus those electricity bills it wouldn't take all that long for you to have put in enough money to have gotten something like this: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/easygrow-plus/hobby-greenhouses

 

[UrbanNoir75]

I wouldn't freeze the seeds if you're going to use them within a year, that's definitely not necessary and may decrease germination rates. Just keep them in the refrigerator. I had bhut jolokia, fatalii, and datil seeds I took from pods last year that sat in an open plastic cup on top of my dresser for 6 months at room temperature and they germinated in about 6-10 days at a rate over 90%. I'm not recommending you store them that way by any means, I kind of just forgot about them/was lazy, but they don't go bad that quickly if properly dried. They should be good for a minimum of several years in the fridge.

Also, 2 400 watt HIDs is a pretty large electricity bill, especially in California where electricity is an average of nearly 15 cents per kW/hr from a quick google search. The 400 watt rating is only for the bulbs and doesn't account for power loss through the ballast which is usually something like 10-15% for HID. You can use OHMS law to find the real power consumption if you know the amps of a particular light. OHMS law is volts x amps= watts, so 120 volts x an average figure of 3.8 amps for a 400 watt HID= 456 watts.

456 watts/light x 2 lights x 18 hours/day x 30 days/month x 1 kw/1000 watts x $.15/kw/hr= $73.87 a month. If I had temps that only dropped to 40F in the winter I would probably just buy a greenhouse and grow year around and not even mess with lights, especially with those kinds of electricity prices. For $500 for the lights plus those electricity bills it wouldn't take all that long for you to have put in enough money to have gotten something like this: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/easygrow-plus/hobby-greenhouses

Holy Moses at that bill. Admittedly, I hadn't considered that. There's got to be a more cost effective way to get indoor lighting for 12 x 7 gallon plants though. CFL lighting perhaps? Hypothetically speaking, assuming you had 32F chills or something awful, and had $400 to throw at indoor lighting for 12 x 7 gallon plants, which route would you go? Is it possible?

I likely am going to go au-natural on this first group of plants and see what happens, but down the road I may want something more advanced. Right now I don;t even have a grow light for starter seedlings. I'm about to get one though.

 

[Datil]

With your climate a big indoor setup sounds like a waste. To start and learn use what you have. Overwinter a few plants, put a couple under the MH light to get some peppers (although not optimal can do the job) then prepare as best as you can for the next outdoor season.

Good luck

Datil

 

[millworkman]

With your climate I would be outside year round. A few years ago I had 5 or so plants that not only survived night time lows dipping into the high 20's but they seemed to thrive in the colder temps. It was really weird walking out in the morning and seeing some icicles hanging off some plants. If it rarely gets below 39 for you then plants in the ground is how I would grow. Those things are going to be beasts in no time.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Large plants seem to be more cold tolerant too. A well established 3 foot tall plant is much more likely to survive a cold spell than a seedling. When winter comes here it seems to take good sized plants at least several light freezes before they croak. I left a lot of plants outside last year and they took quite a beating from low temperatures and multiple freezes before they gave up the ghost. I even had a serrano that was still alive and ripening pods a couple weeks into November and I'm in Zone 5. Serranos are a little more cold tolerant than most annums or chinenses but with an average low of 39F I think millworkman is right you should be able to keep those outside year around. When you get cold spells below 40F you could just move them inside if they're in pots, or try something like row covers if they're in the ground. http://www.gardeners.com/Row-Covers/5111,default,pg.html Mulching helps too.

 

[UrbanNoir75]

With your climate I would be outside year round. A few years ago I had 5 or so plants that not only survived night time lows dipping into the high 20's but they seemed to thrive in the colder temps. It was really weird walking out in the morning and seeing some icicles hanging off some plants. If it rarely gets below 39 for you then plants in the ground is how I would grow. Those things are going to be beasts in no time.

This news comes as a relief as I was already worrying about all the little sweaters I'd have to knit for my new family .

I think I'll go the route you're describing here this time. The seeds I'm getting are all from Ebay suppliers (all but one seem reputable *citing true breeding and isolation techniques to preserve authenticity), so there isn't much to lose if they give up the ghost. My plan is to go through pepperlover.com or HippySeedCo for my next batch in April/May to ensure the highest quality.

This is an aside, but apropos, If I find I'm able to grow these successfully, down the road I'd like to strictly control cross-pollination so my harvests aren't "sloppy." If I do cross pollinate, it will be on purpose with an eye on breeding something hotter, bigger, etc.