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chinense Carolina Reaper and Pepper Stabilization
- Thread starter 3/5King
- Start date
Shane - Put me first in line to sponsor and contribute to your legal fund to fight the mighty 'Suckerbutt / PepperSchmuck combine' law suit.stc3248 said:
Seriously - don't waste your effort on Carolina Ripper powder, IMHO you should be making more of your wonderful smoked Manzano powder !
So they crossed "insert number here" types of peppers to get the CR...whose to say, I, or you, can't stumble upon the same cross....and then turn a profit? Not that I will,but do you have the same resources(pepper plants) as they did/do?
I'm not a lawyer either,but I can only guess.
I'm not a lawyer either,but I can only guess.
SanPatricio said:
No one is expecting perfection and yes they are dramatically different. A breed can be stable but still have recessive genes that will show up. A good example of that would be a padron it is stable genetically but still like 10% of the peppers are spicy while 90% are not.
I believe the things that people are commenting on with this are a number of different traits and problems. If you bought a dog from a breeder and found out that 25% of the dogs they breed had hip dysplasia and 25% of them had distemper whos fault is it? Is it the dogs? The dogs might be the sweetest most wonderful dogs ever but should you or would you buy from that breeder? Perhaps you would pay thousands of dollars for a dog that has a 50% chance of being show quality, I would not.
When someone is getting paid to be a breeder I kind of expect that they have refined the traits and streamlined the genepool if not why not just get some pet from the pound?
I believe the things that people are commenting on with this are a number of different traits and problems. If you bought a dog from a breeder and found out that 25% of the dogs they breed had hip dysplasia and 25% of them had distemper whos fault is it? Is it the dogs? The dogs might be the sweetest most wonderful dogs ever but should you or would you buy from that breeder? Perhaps you would pay thousands of dollars for a dog that has a 50% chance of being show quality, I would not.
When someone is getting paid to be a breeder I kind of expect that they have refined the traits and streamlined the genepool if not why not just get some pet from the pound?
Mr. Hill said:
Look...I don't wanna derail Dave's thread or start too much bashing, not why I'm on here. I think what may have happened is their "hybrid" was somewhat stable after one of their F gens...and further on that fell apart. Some growers like sosIOw above had good results, others did not. We'll all never know what F gen we bought??? If I were them, I would step back to that gen and market it as a hybrid...that way nobody expects them to grow true from saved seeds. Many big seed companies do this...Biker Billy by Burpee for example. Great Pepper, its a hybrid and follow on seeds don't produce true pods. Some of the money they've made off the initial BANG should go to hiring a true genetics expert to find their sweet spot in the hybrid process where the expectations for true pods from purchased seeds are more reliable. That would kill all their birds with one stone. Well, with the exception of sauces and powders...at least then they'd corner the seed market. I am actually really surprised more of the hybrid super producers haven't gone that route before.
Oh and SanPat...thanks for the props on the Manzano Powder!
Oh and SanPat...thanks for the props on the Manzano Powder!
^^^^ This! That is a spot on suggestion.
Pepper-Guru
Extreme Member
There is no way anyone is getting sued for doing anything with these peppers. Period. Genetic test all they want...all thats showing up is one hell of a mutt pepper with who knows what in there. Call your sauce or powder what ever you want. I can make sauce called "The Reaper" and say whatever I want to about it on the bottle. Doesn't mean the sauce is pinnable as sourced from one illegal monsanto-esque pepper or another. Scare tactic indeed. Fret not on that. This is exactly why I don't get into these conversations or did I ever fall into the strain hunter cliques. Its all too much drama.
If anything positive comes of this thread let it be that the need for genetic preservation be instilled in all of us. Take pride in your growing and learn to isolate the peppers out of respect for mother earth's diversity. Landrace peppers are where its at anyway. If humans fall off the face of the earth tomorrow all that will remain in a million years is landrace varities, evolved in perfect harmony with its region
If anything positive comes of this thread let it be that the need for genetic preservation be instilled in all of us. Take pride in your growing and learn to isolate the peppers out of respect for mother earth's diversity. Landrace peppers are where its at anyway. If humans fall off the face of the earth tomorrow all that will remain in a million years is landrace varities, evolved in perfect harmony with its region
TGPS- I started this thread to keep the community grow about growing and take the (more heated) debate elsewhere. I mean imagine if this thread kept going in the Grow thread lol
What you suggested isn't a bad idea and I'm not opposed to it but I also don't mind the talk about the seed sellers here either. Although I do think it might benefit some other potential buyers who are skimming the vendor threads to find a thread about Pepper Joe and Ed Curry to see what the community thinks about it. Whatever's clever. I like all of the info/discussion here so far, I'm learning a lot.
What you suggested isn't a bad idea and I'm not opposed to it but I also don't mind the talk about the seed sellers here either. Although I do think it might benefit some other potential buyers who are skimming the vendor threads to find a thread about Pepper Joe and Ed Curry to see what the community thinks about it. Whatever's clever. I like all of the info/discussion here so far, I'm learning a lot.
+1stc3248 said:
If you didn't sign anything upfront you are simply the owner of the seeds... You can do what ever pleases you - you might not be able to use the name (should it be copyrighted)
Are there any legal advicer on board?
'nother Q:... I doubt they trademark'd it WORLDWIDE B-) - so there should be quite a number of people / sellers that could do whatever they please, including selling it back to the USA
Cheers Al
Pepper-Guru said:
Yes, indeed.
Sawyer
Extreme Member
The only thing you can't do is use the phrase "Smokin' Ed's Carolina Reaper". That is the phrase that's trademarked. According to my reading of the trademark application, even using "Carolina Reaper" would be allowed. Hopefully someone with more legal acumen than me will chime in on this. I posted over in the other thread how to access the application on the US Trademark site. It's rather wordy, so I won't copy/paste here, but anyone who wants to read the application for themselves can click this link to find out how.Pepper-Guru said:
Fair enough. I guess game on, then?3/5King said:
The whole topic has become so expansive you could probably create a whole new forum dedicated to it.
Everything's all about the $$$. And thats unfortunately how this world works. Obviously this is not a stable strain. I suspect PJ and his clique, contracted out the seeds. Meaning they hired totally random or un-random people to grow seeds for them to sell. Something went totally wrong either way. Thats just my opinion.
Play ball!theghostpepperstore said:Fair enough. I guess game on, then?
The whole topic has become so expansive you could probably create a whole new forum dedicated to it.
Hahahaha this post made me crack up. Yup, there's about 5 different directions we can go but so far it's working out well...a dash of this, a pinch of that, a squeeze of this and now you have the perfect thread....IT'S NOT STABLE THOUGH GUYS.....we have to start this thread again and talk about the same stuff....like 8-9 times and then, it might stabilize.....or not..
I would bet he got the you can't sell them or you will be sued thing. I would also agree that if there was no agreement when you were sold the seeds you will have the right to do with them as you please they are yours once you purchased them with no agreement. Looks like it is a money game to me. Bad to see Eds name go down the drain but not looking good. He claims to have made the peppers for the cancer healing properties but looks like he may have gotten greedy along the way. I did buy 30 seeds 10 from Ed and 20 from pepper Joe who I like and was great to deal with. I have about 12 healthy plants out of those thirty seeds no ripe pods yet. Will be interesting to see how this turns out. If they are selling seeds that you can't sell the pods or make any thing with them to sell they will not be selling seeds to many folks for long that is for sure.
Jason
I read the cut/paste in the Community CR Glog. Ed indeed stated that it is generally accepted that F8 and beyond is generally considered stable. While he may have implied it, I didn't see where he specifically stated that the HP22B is F8 or beyond. Is that something that is common knowledge or has it just been cleverly implied all along without actually stating the true generation?armac said:
Also, kind of a funny side note in a pedantic sort of way. In that cut/paste, Duffy writes, "...Capsicum chinense genus..." Capsicum is the genus and chinense is the species. Yes, I knew what he meant, but such an expert I would think should have his scientific terminology correct.
If the patent is on the name, then include a photo of the source pepper with the ad for the product for sale and call them "not-Primos."stc3248 said:
And I must have gotten my seeds from some amateur grower who messed up the gene pool. Let's see, where did I get them? Oh, that's right, I got them direct from Pepper Joe. They look like Nagas. None of the pods have stingers. I will say that the pepper has a great aroma, fruity flavor, and is super-hot. It was not a complete waste to grow. At least the "Free Seeds!" Jalapeno and Serrano are growing true.
My Primo, on the other hand, is making picture-perfect pods.
