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Consumer produce, quality, and capitalism

Not really trashing on capitalism.  Trashing more on consumers who drive it.  In so doing, complimenting the hell out of growers in this forum.  Had a moment when the light bulb went on over my head.  Check me on this.

Reportedly, capitalism produces the best product at the best price.  Unfortunately, it seems to produce the best selling product rather than the best product.  It seems consumers has forgotten that the quality of the product is important too.  Consider grocery store tomato.  Folk often attribute the lack of taste to how they are grown.  But there is also the fact that the variety sold in grocery stores is most often those selected for maximum yield and longest shelf life.  Not so much for flavor.

Capitalism is also said to promote competition and thus variety, however it is often cheaper to grow and offer fewer options.  So competition for price seems to decrease consumer options rather than increase it.

Thinking this is one of the reasons I tend to like gardeners and in particular pepper growers.  In these areas they are rebelling against consumerism and business as usual SOP foods.
 
True, stupidity focuses on cost and ignores the quality. Blenders equip etc used to last 30 years and more, now your lucky if it lasts 6 months. Food totally lacks taste and is just Styrofoam, not to mention all the sugar in products now to add to addiction. Disease has gon though the roof in the last 20 years, food is no longer food just empty crap :(
Gardens are precious :)
 
the only thing thats gone through the roof is obesity and obesity related diseases such as dee-beet-us.
 
pretty much all other diseases have been indecline since like the later part of the 70's. 
 
Go to North Korea and get away from capitalism. Relish the quality. Or go back in 20 years in China or Ussr. People choosing seeds and growing vegetables is capitalism.

People going to a farmers market is the height of capitalism.

Niche products tend to be more prevalent in capitalism. Does that mean when I go to a chain store I get that rare type of plumb I love? No! But it does mean some guy can choose to grow it and sell it

I love quail. Most people are not that picky about poultry. I wish quail was as cheap and plentiful as bland chicken.

Yes people would rather have a cheap, pretty tomato then a great tomato that rots quickly. That doesn't make people wrong; just different.
 
frosty said:
Go to North Korea and get away from capitalism. Relish the quality. Or go back in 20 years in China or Ussr. People choosing seeds and growing vegetables is capitalism.

People going to a farmers market is the height of capitalism.

Niche products tend to be more prevalent in capitalism. Does that mean when I go to a chain store I get that rare type of plumb I love? No! But it does mean some guy can choose to grow it and sell it
 
but.... monsanto.
 
People not behaving the way you think they should is not a market failure. People don't have to behave the way you want. A little more tolerance will make you happy and have better relationships.

People not creating exactly what you want is not a market failure. It is called reality. People have to make trade offs.

An example of a market failure is pollution. But often fixing the failure is worse than the failure.
 
THE TYPE OF PLUMB I LOVE.
 
plumb-line.jpg
 
ajdrew said:
Not really trashing on capitalism.  Trashing more on consumers who drive it.  In so doing, complimenting the hell out of growers in this forum.  Had a moment when the light bulb went on over my head.  Check me on this.

Reportedly, capitalism produces the best product at the best price.  Unfortunately, it seems to produce the best selling product rather than the best product.  It seems consumers has forgotten that the quality of the product is important too.  Consider grocery store tomato.  Folk often attribute the lack of taste to how they are grown.  But there is also the fact that the variety sold in grocery stores is most often those selected for maximum yield and longest shelf life.  Not so much for flavor.

Capitalism is also said to promote competition and thus variety, however it is often cheaper to grow and offer fewer options.  So competition for price seems to decrease consumer options rather than increase it.

Thinking this is one of the reasons I tend to like gardeners and in particular pepper growers.  In these areas they are rebelling against consumerism and business as usual SOP foods.
 
There's another aspect you're overlooking in narrowly defining the market as "the grocery store". 
 
Farmers markets and boutique vendors are also part of "the consumer market" and discerning consumers who share your desire to obtain higher quality produce will shop outside of the big box stores. 
 
This is also part of capitalism. The corporate greed that causes exactly the result you describe (e.g. yield over flavor as a driving factor in plant selection) creates additional markets, and allows smaller growers to profit from it. 
 
Something similar was going on with roses when I worked in horticulture (roses primarily) in Holland many moons ago. Roses sold at auction at Alsmeer (world famous Dutch plant auction). Bidders sit in grandstands, bidding on carts of cut flowers that are wheeled out.  Because of this set-up, buyers are limited in the factors considered for purchase. The most valuable roses had 1. long stems (the longer the stem, the higher the value) 2. color (the years I was there the trend was deep red-to-black or red with black tips on the petals) and 3. longevity in a vase (roses that lasted 6-8 weeks standing were worth more than roses that had a shorter display life). 
 
Unfortunately, when bred for stem length and longevity, the scent was bred out. Bidders didn't even have scent on their radar based on the auction set-up, while consumers had scent as their #1 concern - the 1st thing a consumer does is smell the rose!
 
This created a thriving secondary market for smaller boutique growers who had roses with strong smell. It also caused an uproar over weak-smelling roses with accusations of corporate greed thrown around. Accurately, I might add. ;)
 
I remember working on an organic farm in Humboldt back in my college days and customers griping about a $1.49 head of lettuce, since they "could get that same head of lettuce for $0.79 at Safeway!" - only they couldn't, because my lettuce was organic, hand picked, never sprayed with pesticides and "farm fresh" (e.g. not touched by 20 people on the way to the store shelf".)  But to the non-discerning consumer, they were identical pieces of produce. 
 
And this is all part of capitalism.  Capitalism allows for all levels of quality and rewards producers economically based on supply and demand. Some producers will take the mass-market, high profit, high yield approach and make their bones with lower quality merchandise. Other producers will make their bones with smaller scale operations that focus on quality at the sacrifice of profits. 
 
I guess the same holds true in the hot sauce industry - in theory if I wanted to make more profit per bottle I could reformulate to have 80% vinegar in my recipes, but then I'd have to sell for $1.99 instead of $6.49.  There's a reason that style of sauces are top sellers - they're slotted at a very approachable price point to the average consumer.  But don't forget that also opens the door for higher quality sauces to be sold at a higher price, but to a much smaller market. 
 
Don't blame capitalism though. It's all capitalism. Consumer demand is just as much to blame. Society has a much greater tolerance for sub-par quality than in days of yore - produce is just one area impacted by this.  And then we could go down a deep rabbit hole about the socioeconomic factors that force consumers to tolerate lower quality goods and services, but that's more than I'm ready to bite off in this particular chewing session. :)
 
frosty said:
What is consumerism? No sarcasm intended. I just don't know.
 
It is defined as "the protection or promotion of the interests of consumers."
 
In this context I meant it as the latter - the market producing lower quality goods to meet the consumer demand, e.g. "promoting the interests of consumers". 
 
Example: tomatoes are expensive, consumers want cheaper tomatoes. Tomato farmers select, produce and promote cheaper tomato options based on that demand. 
 
Hopefully I've not misinterpreted the definition....I'm still on my 1st cup of coffee. ;)
I actually might be mis-using that term...consumerism is part of capitalism where it's promoted that "obtaining stuff" is a core part of life. 
 
So maybe I should have just said "consumer demand" instead. 
 
I'm easy - the point remains the same. 

Edited my post for clarity. 
 
i got that same plumb bob. or one that looks just like it.
 
tip screws off so you dont put your eye out i guess.

that bit about roses was interesting.
 
thanks for that tidbit.
 
always wanted to visit one of those fancy dutch floriculture greenhouses during full bloom. must look divine.
 
queequeg152 said:
i got that same plumb bob. or one that looks just like it.
 
tip screws off so you dont put your eye out i guess.

that bit about roses was interesting.
 
thanks for that tidbit.
 
always wanted to visit one of those fancy dutch floriculture greenhouses during full bloom. must look divine.
They work you so hard over there tha that it's difficult to take the time to stop and enjoy the scenery Or smell the roses, as it were.


The nicest view I can remember is once in the rainy season we did a part-time stintt with stargazer lilies - standing in the middle of an entire field of shade structure covered stargazers. I'm talking about maybe half of a hectare of blooming stargazer lilies. It was absolutely stunning But it reeked of rotted bubblegum.
 
Lucky Dog, I do get the feeling the large grocery stores are attempting to meet consumer demand by promoting local produce.  Its is a very good sign.  BTW: If I can remember my camera, will see if i can not get pictures of the local hot sauces, salsa, and the like that Krogers is now promoting.  Promoting local business does seem like an in thing. I can understand it with value added items.  The hot sauces, salsas and other items might be made a hundred miles from the store.  A wee bit too far to drive for even the best salsa.  But tomato?  I'd think if someone wanted to support local produce growers, the would stop at the road side stand not a quarter mile from Krogers.  Seems very odd.
 
I recently told a friend about buying tamales from some guy in a parking lot. The friend freaked out. Said he would never do that. 
 
There are a group of people that want their meat in a styrofoam container with a brand name or they won't buy it. They get comfort from it. I suspect the same could be said with vegetables.
 
Yeah I'll buy alot of stuff from the side of the road. Yet, when it comes to a burger and fries I tend to go to chains. I have been burned too many times.
 
In this day and age I should do a little research and find local restaurants with good ratings. I just never plan ahead.
 
Frosty, you just brought up something else that confuses the heck out of me.  Lived in Germany for about four years.  Everyone I worked with would flock to McDonalds.  Now I admit it is kind of cool to order bier at a McDonalds, but the food on the economy was so much better and more affordable. After I got back, I took a summer off and just sort of rode around the Midwest.  I'd take an exit, find a Mom and Pops, and watch the McDonalds threw the window as I had some good cooking.  McDonalds always had tons of business.  The Mom and Pop, some but not a lot.

What confuses the hell out of me is why people travel and eat the same damn thing they have right there at home.  Don't we travel to experience new things?  I don't want to visit Sea World to watch gold fish.  I wanna see some big ass fish.

Uniformity is boring.
 
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