Could use some diagnostic help...

[Pr0digal_son]

 
The seedling does seem to be "recovering" though it was never to the extreme of the mother plant. I was concerned at the rapid purplingof stems and leaf veins that accompanied curling. The seedling has a tinge of purple, but no large scale darkening...
 
Thanks for the help.

 
I'm still kind of baffled that the intensity of the light did not affect the plant for weeks after the repot. Your plant initially did what I would expect after pruning and putting into a hot mixture like OF. From the dates you provided,you could be at the end or nearing the end of the nutrient load in that mix. I'm sure there is some inconsistency from bag to bag and some plants are genetically sensitive to ferts or lack there of. In my opinion,the outdoor plant you posted seems to have missed a feeding or two along the grow. If it always had some wonky and curled leaves,it could be shitty genes to start. That is very possible and common. You mentioned "I took a LOT of seeds from this plant, as hard as it is for me to find outside sources". This is a pretty common one and I'm sure myself or numerous members here could get you some seeds to grow alongside the ones you already have. It might be in your best interest to let these genes die.  Please keep posting updates on this and info on light height and feedings. I'm pretty interested in this. 
 
P.S.  Bravo on your wintering method. The best way to keep bugs and pathogens out of your indoor grow is to leave them outside! I'm sure we do a couple things different,but that is how I chop and clean them up. 
 
 
 

Almost didn't see your replies in red.
.
A big "NO" (for right now) on the CNS17 and fish juice.  Especially for a rocoto.  Take my experience as you will - I grow rocotos well out of their optimal environment, and I've only been doing so successfully for a couple of seasons - but it's been my particular observation that rocotos will do far better, with far less nutrient, than most other varieties.  If you've got Ocean Forest, and it's a virgin grow, you shouldn't need to feed.  (mind you, I said *shouldn't*, and barring any other new info, I reserver the right to be wrong)
.
Just out of curiosity...  What is the temperature in your growroom?  Lowest temp?  Have these plants been outdoors at all during lower temps?

 
 
 
This is an interesting observation and a couple of things to unpack. Do you think that reducing the feed of your plants has increased the fruiting of this species in your climate? Or do you think that in general, they need less food than other species?Theoretically,it makes sense that cutting nitrogen would have that affect and could be why his plant--although deformed--is popping flowers. I personally have never intentionally reduced food to inhibit flowering. I did a 20 plant grow of C.pubescens in 2 gallons many years back and although it was nearly impossible to keep them fed and watered,they did flower and fruit way quicker than larger containers or inground plants. It's not something that would be a good idea in Florida.    Planted inground,pubescens here get massive but don't have enough time to ripen. Historically--barring any weird genetics--pubes have needed a fair bit of food. They are extremely bulky plants with dense root systems and heavy pods. A lot of the information or comparisons on this forum come from C.chinense superhots and understandably so. The only species that I recognize as needing less food have been ones I have grown from montane and Atlantic forests.

 

[solid7]

 
IThis is an interesting observation and a couple of things to unpack. Do you think that reducing the feed of your plants has increased the fruiting of this species in your climate? Or do you think that in general, they need less food than other species?Theoretically,it makes sense that cutting nitrogen would have that affect and could be why his plant--although deformed--is popping flowers. I personally have never intentionally reduced food to inhibit flowering. I did a 20 plant grow of C.pubescens in 2 gallons many years back and although it was nearly impossible to keep them fed and watered,they did flower and fruit way quicker than larger containers or inground plants. It's not something that would be a good idea in Florida.    Planted inground,pubescens here get massive but don't have enough time to ripen. Historically--barring any weird genetics--pubes have needed a fair bit of food. They are extremely bulky plants with dense root systems and heavy pods. A lot of the information or comparisons on this forum come from C.chinense superhots and understandably so. The only species that I recognize as needing less food have been ones I have grown from montane and Atlantic forests.

 
To answer your first question - yeah, but no, but yeah.  I HAVE to reduce the feeding, because they maintain, at best, after March, and before November.  They come alive in between those months.  But they don't grow like my other peppers.  Not even close.  They neither require (according to normal Florida growing conditions) nor can tolerate, as much food as other varieties, nor do they have anywhere near the vigor.  In my climate, they are very unfussy - when they're not being fussy.  But I don't dare feed them at all, outside of their productive phase. Which, as I've just stated, is a VERY long time.  And when I do, I have learned through experimentation, that 1/2 of my normal feedings for region suitable varieties, is way too much for the rocoto.  A couple of years back, I got about 5lbs of rocotos off of a single plant in the sole season that it fruited. (I accidentally killed it that season)  I'll let you be the judge.  This picture is one harvest.  I have about a half dozen harvests like this, off of a plant that had about 6 "vines", none longer than 30":
.

.
I have grown pubes in both Washington state now, and also in Florida.  In Washington, they grew optimally, in Florida, not so much.  Because they're not growing optimally here in Florida, there's no point in feeding them for maximum growth.  The high humidity inhibits them so much, that the uptake is severely retarded.  Therefore, less food.  In the Washington grow, I had no other peppers to compare them to, but they took FAR LESS feeding, than a species that does well in the Florida climate, would.  I could easily feed a Chinense in Florida, 2-3X what I gave my rocotos in Washington - and they grew far better for me out there - albeit, still slow AF.  Didn't get any pods by season end, unfortunately. This is why I said to take my advice with a fair grain of salt.  In both climates, I don't find rocotos to be a particularly fast grower.  And to be fair, my Washington growing climate was so different to anything that I've ever grown in, I honestly hadn't quite found my feet. (CaneDog is the current custodian of my last C.Pube from that less than stellar grow - he's much more of a pubescens resource than I could honestly be, at this point)
.
On another note, one can definitely reduce Nitrogen intake to induce flowering, though. This would be consistent with an end of season processes in a temperate climate.  Any plant that sees a draw down in Nitrogen, will react by flowering, as a signal that weather related death is impending, and a biological mandate must be fulfilled.  I have seen that happen, many times. 
.
You're absolutely right about small containers not being great in Florida for pubes.  It would just be impossible to keep them cool, they'd be constantly saturated, and the oxygen levels would be so sparse, as to virtually guarantee failure.  The humidity just doesn't play well with them.  My plants in summer, look almost exactly like the ones that Eric has posted.  They are so sad for many months.  I also just had one get pretty cold this week here.  I brought it in, and it perked back up.

 

[stettoman]

I promised an update on Dec 26, I apologize.
 
A week earlier I reduced lighting, and knowing that when there is progress with most plants, it does not occur overnight, I declared a week of observation but no changes other than the daily misting. 30% humidity is fair dry after all, at a constant mean temp of 63F.
 
This is the Aji Oro this morning. The curling hasn't gotten worse, neither has it shown sign of recovering, yet the new growth shows no curl as of yet.

 
As shown in this photo, blossom production is prolific. This particular plant did not flower like this last summer, and it is not but 6 inches tall. You say that nitrogen reduction has a part in the start of a blossom phase?

 
The Aji Oro seedling is growing nice and slowly, and is a deep, vibrant green with only a little curling on the first true leaves and no purple veins. Same soil, planted +/- the same week as the OWs were transplanted

 
The XL Brown has, as far as I can see, gone completely dormant. There's been no node development, no curling or purpling, simply taking a knee in wait.
 
As far as a possible genetic defect, the seedling appears to show little to no propensity for the travails of the mother. I was concerned for this, which is why I planted it so early. I felt the need to see if I should destroy those seeds. But right now I don't believe so. 
 
I did ponder the nute uptake of a seedling vs a full grown transplant in same soil, same size pot. Common sense dictates to me that a seedling couldn't possibly consume at the same rate, at least until a comparable size was reached.
 
Right now, considering that little more deterioration is occuring and prolific blossom production is occurring,  I should leave as is, at least until a more obvious signal for ferts is displayed....yes?
 
...no?
 
 

 

[Pr0digal_son]

 
To answer your first question - yeah, but no, but yeah.  I HAVE to reduce the feeding, because they maintain, at best, after March, and before November.  They come alive in between those months.  But they don't grow like my other peppers.  Not even close.  They neither require (according to normal Florida growing conditions) nor can tolerate, as much food as other varieties, nor do they have anywhere near the vigor.  In my climate, they are very unfussy - when they're not being fussy.  But I don't dare feed them at all, outside of their productive phase. Which, as I've just stated, is a VERY long time.  And when I do, I have learned through experimentation, that 1/2 of my normal feedings for region suitable varieties, is way too much for the rocoto.  A couple of years back, I got about 5lbs of rocotos off of a single plant in the sole season that it fruited. (I accidentally killed it that season)  I'll let you be the judge.  This picture is one harvest.  I have about a half dozen harvests like this, off of a plant that had about 6 "vines", none longer than 30":
.

.
I have grown pubes in both Washington state now, and also in Florida.  In Washington, they grew optimally, in Florida, not so much.  Because they're not growing optimally here in Florida, there's no point in feeding them for maximum growth.  The high humidity inhibits them so much, that the uptake is severely retarded.  Therefore, less food.  In the Washington grow, I had no other peppers to compare them to, but they took FAR LESS feeding, than a species that does well in the Florida climate, would.  I could easily feed a Chinense in Florida, 2-3X what I gave my rocotos in Washington - and they grew far better for me out there - albeit, still slow AF.  Didn't get any pods by season end, unfortunately. This is why I said to take my advice with a fair grain of salt.  In both climates, I don't find rocotos to be a particularly fast grower.  And to be fair, my Washington growing climate was so different to anything that I've ever grown in, I honestly hadn't quite found my feet. (CaneDog is the current custodian of my last C.Pube from that less than stellar grow - he's much more of a pubescens resource than I could honestly be, at this point)
.
On another note, one can definitely reduce Nitrogen intake to induce flowering, though. This would be consistent with an end of season processes in a temperate climate.  Any plant that sees a draw down in Nitrogen, will react by flowering, as a signal that weather related death is impending, and a biological mandate must be fulfilled.  I have seen that happen, many times. 
.
You're absolutely right about small containers not being great in Florida for pubes.  It would just be impossible to keep them cool, they'd be constantly saturated, and the oxygen levels would be so sparse, as to virtually guarantee failure.  The humidity just doesn't play well with them.  My plants in summer, look almost exactly like the ones that Eric has posted.  They are so sad for many months.  I also just had one get pretty cold this week here.  I brought it in, and it perked back up.

 
All interesting info,thanks.  I grow a lot of weird Solanums,pubes and wild species of Capsicum. In this region there is no room for lag times in pot ups or feedings. It's basically pedal to the metal if you want to get a mature plant. This year was especially rough as the last frost was May 20-something and there were two frosts the week of September 18th. With a March sow date,you can see the need to get things moving quickly. Probably very similar to what the OP experiences but he has it even harder in zone 3 I would imagine. I don't believe C.pubescens to be overly hungry or need anything special in the food department,but they are extremely bulky plants that eat up food and container space quickly. Indoors this has been my experience too. They usually are hogging up tent space and trying to choke out everything else.
 
 

I promised an update on Dec 26, I apologize.
 
A week earlier I reduced lighting, and knowing that when there is progress with most plants, it does not occur overnight, I declared a week of observation but no changes other than the daily misting. 30% humidity is fair dry after all, at a constant mean temp of 63F.
 
This is the Aji Oro this morning. The curling hasn't gotten worse, neither has it shown sign of recovering, yet the new growth shows no curl as of yet.

Aji Oro1 12-28-20.jpg
 
As shown in this photo, blossom production is prolific. This particular plant did not flower like this last summer, and it is not but 6 inches tall. You say that nitrogen reduction has a part in the start of a blossom phase?

Aji Oro Blossoms 12-28-20.jpg
 
The Aji Oro seedling is growing nice and slowly, and is a deep, vibrant green with only a little curling on the first true leaves and no purple veins. Same soil, planted +/- the same week as the OWs were transplanted

Aji Oro Seedling-28-20.jpg
 
The XL Brown has, as far as I can see, gone completely dormant. There's been no node development, no curling or purpling, simply taking a knee in wait.
 
As far as a possible genetic defect, the seedling appears to show little to no propensity for the travails of the mother. I was concerned for this, which is why I planted it so early. I felt the need to see if I should destroy those seeds. But right now I don't believe so. 
 
I did ponder the nute uptake of a seedling vs a full grown transplant in same soil, same size pot. Common sense dictates to me that a seedling couldn't possibly consume at the same rate, at least until a comparable size was reached.
 
Right now, considering that little more deterioration is occuring and prolific blossom production is occurring,  I should leave as is, at least until a more obvious signal for ferts is displayed....yes?
 
...no?
 
 

 
That seedling is definitely not showing signs of having weak genetics. It's actually showing some degree of clawing which I would expect from a warm mix like FoxFarm. I build my own mixes and only used O.F. as a base for some plants years ago. I am pretty sure it's mostly all nitrogen and that plant showing deficiencies and flowering may be the result of it's charge being spent. After raising the light with no significant improvement,I don't see the harm in giving that plant a mild dosage of food. Thanks for keeping the updates going. This place is pretty dead!

 

[solid7]

You say that nitrogen reduction has a part in the start of a blossom phase?

 
Peppers don't have a "blossom phase", as such.  But they DO exhibit blossoming when nitrogen levels drop off, consistent with seasonal phases. (it can actually be interpreted as a stressor - which will definitely cause blooms) However, I don't like to say that too loudly, because some growers will take that as a sign to reduce nitrogen to "get more pods".  It just simply isn't true, though.  You are still better off with continuous feeding.  Unless, however, you happen to be a commercial grower, and are super dialed in to growing for market.
.
Unless you stress a plant AF, they basically flower when they want to. "Puberty".  In general, one shouldn't try to "veg" and "bloom" a pepper.

 

[Pr0digal_son]

 
 I don't like to say that too loudly, because some growers will take that as a sign to reduce nitrogen to "get more pods".  

 
Thank you!!! There is no reason anyone should not want their plants to be as healthy as possible. This logic has gone on in the flower industry forever. One thing we haven't touched on is the fact that we have a mature plant that has been chopped back and put into a suitable environment. From what I have seen,these plants typically will flower or atleast set buds within 3-4 weeks depending on species,genetics and conditions. Sometimes it takes even less time. I currently have 14 in my basement that that live up to this.
 
 
 
Without continuing to belabor the obvious things,what can everyone conclude from what we have seen? We have a seedling thriving in the same soil,temps and lighting conditions as the struggling mother plant. Do we need to take the canopy of the mother down to the level of the seedling to rule out an issue with light intensity? We have a mother in soil that has met or exceeded it's nutrient shelf life. Do we need to feed? I don't think it's a pest issue at all,but it's always a good idea to inspect plants that have been brought in from outside. We can all agree this will not remedy itself without some sort of intervention. Those flowers may set,but I'm guessing that the OP would rather see the overall health of that plant improve first. I guess I'll keep tuning in to see what happens. Good luck stettoman

 

[stettoman]

So much great info, so little brain-space!! Thanks guys...
 
I've added a scant 1/2 tsp of CNS17 to a gallon of rain water to see if a feeding or two doesn't improve matters with the mother plant, also in the belief that a small amount of nute "can't hurt". I will use it sparingly.
 
The canopies of both plants are within an inch of each other in total height, I doubt any paring is necessary. I inspect for health status and any infestation daily. The XL Brown has exhibited small clusters of aphid hatchings which are dispatched as I find them, no migration noted to the two others. They are separated by at least 6 inches of each other.
 
Happy new years, guys! Thanks again.

 

[stettoman]

Update. Not much change...

 
An observation: I did not expect curled leaves to UNcurl, and they have not. But new growth seems to maintain "normality", at least until it is or is near full size. The OW Aji Oro has dwarved leaves, but blossom production is prolific. I neither encourage nor discourage this, it's simply occuring.

 
There are pods setting, but at this stage I doubt many/any will not drop. I have noticed a lack of pollen in some flowers, some contain an abundance.
It wouldn't bother me to have a couple off-season peppers...

 
The Aji Oro young'un does have curling on older growth. I don't get it, but then it may simply be a mutant genetic trait, right? These guys are for all intents, healthy.
They simply have the botanical version of Dupuytren's disease,

 
Temp is steady at 63F, humidity a constant at 34%. I continue to mist twice daily. Lights have not been adjusted in height or duration since New Years.
 
That's what I have...
 
 
 
 

 

[solid7]

I don't typically spray directly onto leaves of pepper plants.
.
Anyone?

 

[solid7]

In the absence of any replies to that comment, can I suggest that you maybe stop spraying directly onto the leaves for a bit?  I know that we're grasping at straws here, but we're kind of in that territory, anyway, right?
 
If you need humidity, suggest closing off the space, and adding a bowl of water on your heat mat, somewhere just tangential to to the airflow of your fan...

 

[stettoman]

I don't typically spray directly onto leaves of pepper plants.
.
Anyone?

In the absence of any replies to that comment, can I suggest that you maybe stop spraying directly onto the leaves for a bit?  I know that we're grasping at straws here, but we're kind of in that territory, anyway, right?
 
If you need humidity, suggest closing off the space, and adding a bowl of water on your heat mat, somewhere just tangential to to the airflow of your fan...

 
I ceased the misting after you posted Jan 8. Only two days, no changes. I'll try to rig a humidifier situation this week. 
 
I remember giving a local greenhouse operator an Aji Oro to grow last Spring, but I can't confirm it was from the same seed, though it may well have been. I saw the plant only a few weeks later, and it was already much larger than any of mine planted at the same time. I have yet to ask how her season went with it, but I do know that if she had the bumper crop so many get from the Aji Oro, she will be seeding them up this March. I mention this because she kept her plant in the controlled environment of a large highly humid hoophouse with a constant 70+ degrees, and from the progress that plant made after only a few weeks I have no doubt it was thriving in that filtered-light, temp & humidity controlled greenhouse.
 
...Hence the misting. I was attempting to compensate...

 

[solid7]

Makes sense.  In all honesty, you'd probably have to wait for new growth.  I'm not guessing those leaves are gonna uncurl.  Curling of any kind, can often  (usually?) be attributed to some sort of damage/deformity at the cellular level. 
 
I'm honestly running out of ideas, but I really do want to see you succeed.  Please don't stop posting updates.  I'd love to learn something new here...

 

[stettoman]

Makes sense.  In all honesty, you'd probably have to wait for new growth.  I'm not guessing those leaves are gonna uncurl.  Curling of any kind, can often  (usually?) be attributed to some sort of damage/deformity at the cellular level. 
 
I'm honestly running out of ideas, but I really do want to see you succeed.  Please don't stop posting updates.  I'd love to learn something new here...

 
I appreciate the support. I've actually got a pretty healthy outlook on this, it's not like I can't start new. But the curiosity is a bitch. Other than curl these two plants are the picture of health, and the XLB shows no sign of similar symptoms.
 
The OW Aji Oro did produce around 20 good pods last year. There was curl going on then as well. So I don't see the curl as necessarily negative. Positive? Naw, no one would claim that. But as Chief Dan George said in The Outlaw Josey Wales, "We will endeavor to persevere..."

 

[solid7]

 
But the curiosity is a bitch.

 
That really is the crux of the matter, for me.  As someone who is naturally curious, I'm never content to not know...  I can stop learning when I'm dead.

 

[stettoman]

 This is a pretty common one and I'm sure myself or numerous members here could get you some seeds to grow alongside the ones you already have.
 

 
This is an interesting remark. I have not found these Aji Oro seeds to be all that available, There is only two vendors I could find, neither in the USA. My first experience with them were 4 years ago when Matt Malarky mailed me a Christmas card full of various seed, he listed TGCM as his source. But as far as American vendors go, there are none AFAIK...
 
Other than paying Neil & Charlotte 3-4 times the price for shipping from Australia as their price for a dozen seeds, my options are sparse. The woman I gifted a seedling to last season may be a source, but I haven't been able to reach her. I assume she winters elsewhere.
 
If you know of a source, should I need to eliminate my seed from the Rocoto gene pool, please enlighten!!

 

[solid7]

I have some Aji Oro that were grown in complete isolation.  You are welcome to have some.

 

[stettoman]

I have some Aji Oro that were grown in complete isolation.  You are welcome to have some.

 
Expect a pm...
 
*edit* Just tried to PM you. Your mailbox may be full, I cannot send.

 

[Pr0digal_son]

This is an interesting remark. I have not found these Aji Oro seeds to be all that available, There is only two vendors I could find, neither in the USA. My first experience with them were 4 years ago when Matt Malarky mailed me a Christmas card full of various seed, he listed TGCM as his source. But as far as American vendors go, there are none AFAIK...
 
Other than paying Neil & Charlotte 3-4 times the price for shipping from Australia as their price for a dozen seeds, my options are sparse. The woman I gifted a seedling to last season may be a source, but I haven't been able to reach her. I assume she winters elsewhere.
 
If you know of a source, should I need to eliminate my seed from the Rocoto gene pool, please enlighten!!

Looks like you are sorted out with a source.

I should have thought before I typed. When I grew these they were extremely common. I am not sure now but suspect many people have them. Everyone and their mother has brought market pods back from S.A. and it wouldn't surprise me if these are named 4 or 5 different things. It's not as bad as the designer superhot scene,but the lack of diversity in C.pubescens has led to their fair share of renaming also.

 

[stettoman]

Looks like you are sorted out with a source.

I should have thought before I typed. When I grew these they were extremely common. I am not sure now but suspect many people have them. Everyone and their mother has brought market pods back from S.A. and it wouldn't surprise me if these are named 4 or 5 different things. It's not as bad as the designer superhot scene,but the lack of diversity in C.pubescens has led to their fair share of renaming also.

 
Pepperlovers still "advertise" them, but I've been on a notify me list for two years now. 
 
I understand the renaming bit. There are so many virtually identical phenos with a myriad names, I could easily be passing right by the correct seed. 
 
But I have hundreds, all from that same plant, and so far pretty darn viable. I may not be able to identify the problem, if that's actually what it is, but they don't wither and die nor remain barren. New growth is not inhibited, but it ultimately curls...
 
I haven't grown a vendor-sourced Aji Oro yet. My sources, besides TGCM via Malarky, have been Bhuter and Roper2008, both of whom got their original seed from TGCM as well. In fact, the Aji Oro variety that The Hippy Seed Company in Australia vends is originally from seed sent them by Bhuter as well. I can only assume my plant's pedegree is sound...
 
I finally got a message through to solid7...It will be interesting to grow on of his next to my.....mutant...

 

[solid7]

Pepperlovers still "advertise" them, but I've been on a notify me list for two years now.

Not gonna lie... I've had very bad germination rates with PL sourced seed. I hate to have to go and say that, but I wouldn't, if it weren't the truth.  For as much as they cost, I expect damn near perfection.
.
I would buy seed from Hippy, all day, every day.  I've always been very happy with them.  And they've always given me freebies.  Granted, I often end up gifting those to others.  But the courtesy is not lost on me.