Crowd Sourced Pepper Database

Dulac said:
 
That's not how it works. You need to ask permission and then cite the source unless they don't care if you do. They own the image. And I won't allow the image I published in this wiki to be on profit sites (seed venders for example), so I will dmca them if they don't cooperate.
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In general images found on the web, unless specified by the creator, are fair game to be used so long as your give proper attribution (and you should, via a byline/caption) and it is not for commercial purposes. It is assumed that most upstanding people will ask permission, but for the most part there is a copyright notice (and creators should specify this IMO) for the image making asking permission unnecessary.
 
Furthermore, if you find an image on a page who's original source cannot be tracked down, who do you ask? They have to be dead for it to be considered in the public domain and how are you to know if they are dead if you don't know who they are?
 
Of course there are the unscrupulous types who go so far as to remove water marks and change the image to make it look like its theirs. There was a thread about an ebay seller that did this awhile back if memory serves -_-
 
filmost said:
 
In general images found on the web, unless specified by the creator, are fair game to be used so long as your give proper attribution (and you should, via a byline/caption) and it is not for commercial purposes. It is assumed that most upstanding people will ask permission, but for the most part there is a copyright notice (and creators should specify this IMO) for the image making asking permission unnecessary.
 
Furthermore, if you find an image on a page who's original source cannot be tracked down, who do you ask? They have to be dead for it to be considered in the public domain and how are you to know if they are dead if you don't know who they are?
 
Of course there are the unscrupulous types who go so far as to remove water marks and change the image to make it look like its theirs. There was a thread about an ebay seller that did this awhile back if memory serves -_-
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You don't know IP law. I don't know what else to tell you. This is untrue. If you don't know who the IP owner is, then you should't use the image. You could be violating IP law by doing so and find out after they dmca you. Perhaps you should dig more for permission if you don't know who the author is. You can be dead and the image can still have an IP holder such as their wife or someone who bought it. Many people on Ebay steal members of this community's images, which is upsetting. I know some people contacted Ebay to get their images removed. I'm trying to help this wiki out. I don't want there to be legal issues or people upset.
 
Dulac said:
 
You don't know IP law. I don't know what else to tell you. This is untrue. If you don't know who the IP owner is, then you should't use the image. You could be violating IP law by doing so and find out after they dmca you. Perhaps you should dig more for permission if you don't know who the author is. You can be dead and the image can still have an IP holder such as their wife or someone who bought it. Many people on Ebay steal members of this community's images, which is upsetting. I know some people contacted Ebay to get their images removed. I'm trying to help this wiki out. I don't want there to be legal issues or people upset.
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Alright, based on your insistence. I went and educated myself :cheers:  and rescind my previous comment about the generality of images being fair game. That said, I still think it is okay to uses images where the creator has specifically said it is okay or has posted up a creative commons license, i.e. Non-commercial with Attribution.
 
To be safe, if you don't know or they haven't specified then ask first. If they say no, move on.
 
Not the best source, but its better than digging and compiling.
 
Dulac said:
I lied and added a page for the pimenta de Neyde. I don't think it's a good idea to use images and descriptions found on the web. Those should all be replaced to respect others ip imo. Lots of us grow and take pictures, so we should be able to add original content.
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i can add a gallery from user reviews. The one image on the right is like the cover image/profile pic for the variety.
your pimenta de neyde page looks good to me.
I would rather have OC from the site's users as pictures, but as no one really using the site yet, we can't have that.
buckeye and pepperlover were happy to let me use their content.
 
filmost said:
I like the idea, but I don't think that Mediawiki is a good idea to use for glogs. For starters I can go to anyone's glog right now and write an update or edit any posts that have been made.
 
Furthermore, while you do have some basic spam protection in place, the answer is always the same (and you have a hint in place). Any one with malicious intent and some programing skill can write a bot to fill the database with spam users.
 
Combine my first point and second point and you have a recipe for maintenance hell.
 
BTW, I don't mean to be a downer or shoot you down at all. Just voicing ideas in hopes of seeing this take off.
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yeah, i understand this works on good will. seeing the worst case doesn't mean it's going to happen. I have nuke and spam combating features. 
Just don't use glogs if you think someones going to tamper with them..
I have a few people who said they would be happy to view logs and help maintain, i don't think there will be that much traffic.
 
 
here's a video on how to use the site in case anyone wandered.
http://youtu.be/OuJsOviiyPo
 
Dulac said:
 
You don't know IP law. I don't know what else to tell you. This is untrue. If you don't know who the IP owner is, then you should't use the image. You could be violating IP law by doing so and find out after they dmca you. Perhaps you should dig more for permission if you don't know who the author is. You can be dead and the image can still have an IP holder such as their wife or someone who bought it. Many people on Ebay steal members of this community's images, which is upsetting. I know some people contacted Ebay to get their images removed. I'm trying to help this wiki out. I don't want there to be legal issues or people upset.
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filmost is de facto correct, i think, and dulac is de jure correct ...
 
it's likely dulac doesn't believe in the popular adage that it's easier to ask for forgiveness later, than to ask for permission up front =)
 
grantmichaels said:
 
filmost is de facto correct, i think, and dulac is de jure correct ...
 
it's likely dulac doesn't believe in the popular adage that it's easier to ask for forgiveness later, than to ask for permission up front =)
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Haha I guess that is one way to put it. In any case, it's a sticky situation.
 
grantmichaels said:
 
filmost is de facto correct, i think, and dulac is de jure correct ...
 
it's likely dulac doesn't believe in the popular adage that it's easier to ask for forgiveness later, than to ask for permission up front =)
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I come from an open source programming and digital art community where one doesn't have to ask for permission (permission is granted in the license and the wishes in it must be respected). This wiki is open source. If I was not "in the popular age," then what am I doing with open source? I think both open source and closed are valuable, and it's up to whoever created the work to decide. Some people's livelihood  revolves around writing and photography. I'm glad juanitos asked permission, because I wouldn't work on a wiki if it didn't follow the right ethics and the law (primarily due to the project's work being at risk). Pepperlover and Buckeye are great companies, and it doesn't surprise me that they gave permission for the wiki. However, if we asked them after we made the wiki, I'm sure they would feel disrespected.
 
after a week it seems like it hasn't caught on yet or there is a problem with the site.
 
If i want to make this happen maybe i have to add most of the ~700-1000 varieties myself.. then it will still be hit or miss. 
Maybe because it is bundled with my commercial domain.
Maybe i overestimated the want / need for the features and wikipedia is just better.
Maybe i am impatient and just need to wait.
 
juanitos said:
after a week it seems like it hasn't caught on yet or there is a problem with the site.
 
If i want to make this happen maybe i have to add most of the ~700-1000 varieties myself.. then it will still be hit or miss. 
Maybe because it is bundled with my commercial domain.
Maybe i overestimated the want / need for the features and wikipedia is just better.
Maybe i am impatient and just need to wait.
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People want things only right up until the moment it's going to cost them time or resources ...
 
It'll be slow growing at first, I think, but especially because you didn't really pre-launch it ...
 
Teaser screen -> "We're at capacity serving our earliest adopters right now, but leave your email and we'll contact you once we have the additional capacity to support more users" ...
 
This is the virtual equivalent of holding the line at a nightclub ... it gets people to pondering and talking, developing hype ...
 
That's my opinion, anyways ... but, I think it'll grow ... slowly, but increasingly ...
 
I think it'll pick up speed more as time progresses, but if you were expecting a stampede, you probably needed to beat the ground a lot harder to get one started!
 
.02
Make people add something to get your next discount ... then watch.
 
LOL.
 
I'm gonna echo what grantmichaels said.  Give it time.  Wikis take time to develop and get filled in.  People only think about a service when they need/want it, and not usually in their spare time.  Right now people are mid grow and know what peppers they have, so they don't have the need for the wiki right now.  My guess is that when people start planning their next season's pepper list they'll be hitting your wiki, using the info that is there and filling in info that isn't. 
 
The best thing you can do is to keep bringing it up from time to time on THP threads, make sure people remember its there.  Then at the end of 2015 when people start planning out their next season, they'll remember the wiki and start hitting it. 
 
Another thing you can do to get traction on the wiki is to reach out to the different seed retailers and partner with them.  If they linked their product pages to the wiki page of that variety (and vice verse) it would really help us growers identify sources for cool and new pepper varieties.  Now to do that you may want to have a different domain from your commercial one.  But that would really help fill out the wiki with all the different varieties, and give us growers a good impartial list of varieties, descriptions, and sources.  
 
juanitos said:
after a week it seems like it hasn't caught on yet or there is a problem with the site.
 
If i want to make this happen maybe i have to add most of the ~700-1000 varieties myself.. then it will still be hit or miss. 
Maybe because it is bundled with my commercial domain.
Maybe i overestimated the want / need for the features and wikipedia is just better.
Maybe i am impatient and just need to wait.
Click to expand...
 
A week? It can take years. You have to have the passion and patience to make it work, the time, the resources, and even the $ for advertising/promotion, even if it's a free resource.
 
Nothing is "set it and forget it" except for the Ronco Rotisserie! 
 
thanks for advice pedps, i guess i will focus less on getting people on the site and focus more on filling it out and linking to it when people ask a question about a variety on threads here and other forums. i think i will buy a domain like pepperwiki.org or something and move everything soon.
 
What do you guys think about the varieties names /  colors?
Do i need a separate page for each color? 
 
Example 1: color
7 Pot
7 Pot, Orange
 
Exmaple 2: distinct var
7 Pot
7 Pot Primo
 
Example 3: distinct var color
7 Pot
7 Pot, Orange
7 Pot Primo
7 Pot Primo, Red
 
Example 4: 
7 pot 
       variations: Yellow, Orange, Red, white, peach
7 pot primo
       variations: yellow, orange, red
 
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