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tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101
- Thread starter RocketMan
- Start date
hot stuff said:It will develop rich flavors if you just leave it out. Mine sit in a garage for a year or until I get around to them. But if you fridge space, more power to you. I have 5 kids at home. No such thing as space for hot sauce in the fridge with everything else to feed them.
I hear you. I have 3 boys and man, can they eat! I have a fridge in the garage that's pretty packed, but good to know I can just leave it out until I make up my mind on what I want to do with it. Cheers.
I wanted to mention a big no no I have seen some doing, even here on THP. Never do any fermentations in plastic, aluminum or other metal. Use either glass, ceramic, clay stoneware etc, but never plastic or anything metal. The bacteria and ph change in the brew will start to break down the plastic/metal and you will end up with nasty chemicals or metals in the final product you don't want.
hot stuff said:It will develop rich flavors if you just leave it out. Mine sit in a garage for a year or until I get around to them. But if you have fridge space, more power to you. I have 5 kids at home. No such thing as space for hot sauce in the fridge with everything else to feed them.
Man, hot sauce in the fridge with a lot of kids mean free reign on the sauce. At least that's the way it is with my daughter's boy friends.
AaronTT said:
I kinda agree with both of you. I would think a food grade pickle bucket like PIC 1 uses should be fine but I wouldn't want to ferment in a plastic dasani water bottle. They both may be plastic but there's a world of difference between them.PIC 1 said:
just my 2 cents
If you do the research you will find that there is really no such thing as food safe plastic. All contain chemicals, it just the so called bpa free ones are a bit better. Not for fermenting though. You never want to heat or use anything acidic, or create fermentation in plastic as it does interact with it. Oh, well its your ferments, just trying to help. Do it at your own risk.
Not that I have a dog in this fight,,... personally I use mason jars or small crocks for my ferment vessels because that's how I was taught and I have them readily available
But with that being said..plastic has been used in the past and is very commonly used today with fermenting and cooking.Most commonly,the last time I checked, my soy sauce and mustard packages that were tossed in the bag with my Chinese takeout were in plastic.
If one simply strolls down the condiment aisle at the local grocery, a significant number if not majority of "acidic" (including all types of vinegar)products found there are in "food safe" plastic containers. A similar journey through that same grocery to pick up some refrigerated and frozen entrees, will be packaged in plastic containers 'suitable" for cooking and serving after zapping in the microwave or baking in the oven.
For several years both Glad and Ziplock brands have marketed lines of their plastic-ware specifically designed for baking casserole type foods.
Ever had a pickle slice on you sandwich at Chick-Fil-A, or McDonalds...check out the 5 gallon plastic buckets they are stored and delivered in.
And then there's the gourmet chef's that serve their recipes having been prepared using "sous vide" methods (slow cooking in plastic bags and containers).
For those that might be interested ...here's an excerpt with bit of research on the topic that might be helpful for easing concerns(or not) and selecting the off the shelf food safe plastic:
Since writing Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home, we’ve been asked many times to comment on the safety of cooking in plastic bags. Many of our sous vide recipes, from our Sous Vide Salmon and Rare Beef Jus to our Cranberry Consommé and Scrambled Egg Foam, require vacuum-sealing or using a zip-top bag. Similarly, many of our recipes that utilize microwaves, such as our Microwaved Tilapia, Eggplant Parmesan, andMicrowave-Fried Herbs, require plastic wrap.
According to the latest research, the safest plastics for use with food are high-density polyethylene, low-density polyethylene, and polypropylene. Virtually all sous vide bags are made from these plastics, as are most brand-name food storage bags and plastic wraps such as Saran wrap. Polyethylene is widely used in containers for biology and chemistry labs, and it has been studied extensively. It is safe.
Less expensive, bulk plastic wraps sold to the catering trade are not as safe, however. These products are commonly made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC), which can contain harmful plasticizers that have been shown to leach into fatty foods such as cheese, meat, and fish. Legitimate concerns exist about food exposed to these plastics at high temperatures. Polyethylene-based plastic wraps are available at only slightly higher costs and do not raise such concerns. An easy way to spot the difference is to check that your cling wraps or plastic bags are rated microwave-safe. Bags and wraps made form polyethylene are generally microwave-safe, whereas those that contain polyvinyl chloride plastics generally are not.
Many professional kitchens use clear, rigid, plastic storage containers that are made from polycarbonate. While they are currently approved for food use, these plastics also may be a cause for concern because they contain bisphenol A (BPA), a chemical that can disrupt hormone activity and leach into foods and beverages. Cracks and crazing due to wear and tear increase the rate at which BPA leaches out of polycarbonates.
The bottom line is that bags made expressly for cooking sous vide are perfectly safeas are oven bags, popular brands of zip-top bags, and stretchy plastics such as Saran wrap. If you remain hesitant to try cooking sous vide due to concerns over plastic, you can always usecanning jars instead, but beware that cooking times will be longer.
Adapted from Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home
Source: http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/03/is-it-safe-cook-plastic/
But with that being said..plastic has been used in the past and is very commonly used today with fermenting and cooking.Most commonly,the last time I checked, my soy sauce and mustard packages that were tossed in the bag with my Chinese takeout were in plastic.
If one simply strolls down the condiment aisle at the local grocery, a significant number if not majority of "acidic" (including all types of vinegar)products found there are in "food safe" plastic containers. A similar journey through that same grocery to pick up some refrigerated and frozen entrees, will be packaged in plastic containers 'suitable" for cooking and serving after zapping in the microwave or baking in the oven.
For several years both Glad and Ziplock brands have marketed lines of their plastic-ware specifically designed for baking casserole type foods.
Ever had a pickle slice on you sandwich at Chick-Fil-A, or McDonalds...check out the 5 gallon plastic buckets they are stored and delivered in.
And then there's the gourmet chef's that serve their recipes having been prepared using "sous vide" methods (slow cooking in plastic bags and containers).
For those that might be interested ...here's an excerpt with bit of research on the topic that might be helpful for easing concerns(or not) and selecting the off the shelf food safe plastic:
Since writing Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home, we’ve been asked many times to comment on the safety of cooking in plastic bags. Many of our sous vide recipes, from our Sous Vide Salmon and Rare Beef Jus to our Cranberry Consommé and Scrambled Egg Foam, require vacuum-sealing or using a zip-top bag. Similarly, many of our recipes that utilize microwaves, such as our Microwaved Tilapia, Eggplant Parmesan, andMicrowave-Fried Herbs, require plastic wrap.
According to the latest research, the safest plastics for use with food are high-density polyethylene, low-density polyethylene, and polypropylene. Virtually all sous vide bags are made from these plastics, as are most brand-name food storage bags and plastic wraps such as Saran wrap. Polyethylene is widely used in containers for biology and chemistry labs, and it has been studied extensively. It is safe.
Less expensive, bulk plastic wraps sold to the catering trade are not as safe, however. These products are commonly made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC), which can contain harmful plasticizers that have been shown to leach into fatty foods such as cheese, meat, and fish. Legitimate concerns exist about food exposed to these plastics at high temperatures. Polyethylene-based plastic wraps are available at only slightly higher costs and do not raise such concerns. An easy way to spot the difference is to check that your cling wraps or plastic bags are rated microwave-safe. Bags and wraps made form polyethylene are generally microwave-safe, whereas those that contain polyvinyl chloride plastics generally are not.
Many professional kitchens use clear, rigid, plastic storage containers that are made from polycarbonate. While they are currently approved for food use, these plastics also may be a cause for concern because they contain bisphenol A (BPA), a chemical that can disrupt hormone activity and leach into foods and beverages. Cracks and crazing due to wear and tear increase the rate at which BPA leaches out of polycarbonates.
The bottom line is that bags made expressly for cooking sous vide are perfectly safeas are oven bags, popular brands of zip-top bags, and stretchy plastics such as Saran wrap. If you remain hesitant to try cooking sous vide due to concerns over plastic, you can always usecanning jars instead, but beware that cooking times will be longer.
Adapted from Modernist Cuisine and Modernist Cuisine at Home
Source: http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/03/is-it-safe-cook-plastic/
Been using HDPE plastic fermenters for brewing for almost 20 years. Here's a good guide for the curious. Step 4 addresses the concerns stated in this discussion.
http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-Food-Grade-Buckets
http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-Food-Grade-Buckets
I believe a lot of it depends on what your definition of 'safe' is. I will not argue that food grade plastic and bpa free and actually most any type of plastic in fact will not kill you or send you to the hospital, and so in that sense it is safe. However, all forms of plastic, even the safest types have chemicals in their processing, and are leaked into the foods. Did you know what is the most prevalant toxin on this planet? Its plastics, and these were found the most in the blood stream of people, more than any other contaminant and the environment. Most are carcinogenic, and therefore harmful. Now its not going to cause an acute problem right away, but adds to the cumulative effect on toxins in general to our body. Now I don't know about you, but if I could avoid that by simply excluding these as vessels for fermentation, and instead use glass then why not? I minimize plastics in general, among exposure to other things and so it does help. Also, just because vendors sell food in these tubs does not mean there perfectly fine. Just means they are allowed to because doing so is not going to directly cause any immediate harm to anyone. Here check this out:
http://ecologycenter.org/factsheets/adverse-health-effects-of-plastics/
Again, these are your decisions, I am not trying to force anything. People are going to do what they want, but at least they are informed. I know you cannot avoid everything, but being proactive and eliminating exposure to various things does limit your chances of having a problem that is directly related to the exposure to these toxins.
http://ecologycenter.org/factsheets/adverse-health-effects-of-plastics/
Again, these are your decisions, I am not trying to force anything. People are going to do what they want, but at least they are informed. I know you cannot avoid everything, but being proactive and eliminating exposure to various things does limit your chances of having a problem that is directly related to the exposure to these toxins.
All of you guys are wrong. The only safe and natural way to ferment foods is to store it in seal skins and bury it in the ground for 6 months the way the Inuit make Kiviak. 
:
:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/bpa-is-still-everywhere-and-mounting-evidence-suggests-harmful-effects/2013/12/06/2ff4a462-5b5d-11e3-a49b-90a0e156254b_story.html
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certichem-eastman-bpa-free-plastic-safe
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690810
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/tritan-certichem-eastman-bpa-free-plastic-safe
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690810
You make a strong point. I understand your intent was to inform us all rather than force our train of thought. Well done. I am new to fermenting and am using both mason jars and pickle buckets and although I'm not rushing to change out my buckets any time soon I now have a little more to think about for the next batch.AaronTT said:
Hawaiianero said:
I think this is a good group for the most part of people who share a passion about peppers. My intention is not to control or win, only to inform. I won't go on and on, as long as I feel I brought the facts, then I usually won't go on much farther than that. I just wanted to present some facts so other can be informed of the risks. Not really wanting to argue, but I want to make sure its known that I am not just spouting bs either. Again its everyones choice, and we make similar choices every day. Thanks for the reply.
First attempt at fermenting...four large mason jars going (topped only with cheesecloth), two with Jalapenos, one with red bananas, and one with chocolate habaneros. In with peppers is garlic, salt (1 T), sugar (1 T), vinegar (1 T), and white wine to cover. Red bananas started bubbling first, so scooped a little liquid from that jar to pour into others. Jalapenos started to bubble soon after. However, habaneros never started bubbling. Removed some of the liquid from habanero jar, added more from the bubbling jalapenos, but still no luck. Red bananas look good, fermenting (bubbling) is done, probably going to drain, blend, and strain soon, or might leave a little longer.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15381477009/
Wondering if I'm having some problems with what I am seeing in the other jars:
1. jalapenos seem to be developing a layer of green silt in the bottom as fermenting continues...is this normal?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15568105295/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/14947355104/
2. habaneros have a white layer/film on the bottom of the jar, and it appears to be rather solid...any thoughts? And any guesses on why these might not have been actively fermenting like the others?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15381948968/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15382466290/
Thanks...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15381477009/
Wondering if I'm having some problems with what I am seeing in the other jars:
1. jalapenos seem to be developing a layer of green silt in the bottom as fermenting continues...is this normal?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15568105295/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/14947355104/
2. habaneros have a white layer/film on the bottom of the jar, and it appears to be rather solid...any thoughts? And any guesses on why these might not have been actively fermenting like the others?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15381948968/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38701187@N08/15382466290/
Thanks...
Yesterday I started a new ferment. Out little over 3 liters of mash and I had to put in two bottles, one of three liters and another smaller. I was hurt discard the leftover mash.
This is the situation today as 24 hours to ferment ...
Already started the CO2 activity !!! As fast as possible?
This time the mash was liquefied. The result was equal to a fruit smoothie that is taken in a bar. Maybe that has favored fermenting so fast?
This is the situation today as 24 hours to ferment ...
Already started the CO2 activity !!! As fast as possible?
This time the mash was liquefied. The result was equal to a fruit smoothie that is taken in a bar. Maybe that has favored fermenting so fast?