fermenting Fermenting using store bought cultures

[aram]

hey all! i tried fermenting last year with the sourdough method and sad to say, it didn't work . i'm not sure what I did wrong. anyway, i harvested some cayennes, a few aji criolla sella and 2-3 jolokias this year and thought i'd give fermentation another shot in order to develop a system i know will work for when i harvest more peppers come august/september.

anyway, i boiled the mason jar in a pot for about 10 minutes, chopped the peppers and a couple of other ingredients and added some salt and put the jar back in the boiling water to heat it up and kill any bacteria that might've been living on the peppers themselves. i let the peppers cool to around 74F and added 1/8th tsp of store bought cheese culture (Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris). this was about 24 hours ago and I haven't seen any activity as of yet.
Can anyone tell me if this normal?

Also, would the cheese culture work? Since everyone uses yogurt whey, i don't see why this method wouldn't unless yogurt bacteria is completely different than what i used.

How much water should I have added? right now, i have a really thick mash. should it be a little more liquid-y?

thanks!

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

No, it won't work, not well anyway.
Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris will produce lactic acid, but it's very sensitive to salt.

Use yogurt serum or pick up a yogurt culture at a health food store.

There's no benefit in making it complicated.

~Dig

 

[aram]

ha i thought i was simplifying as i already had powdered culture lol if i add yogurt culture/serum to my existing mash, would it still work?

thanks Dig

 

[steel-n-peppers]

I used this ... Acidophilus Probiotic Caplets ... like $6 for 60 caps ...

I put 3 caps in a little water ... and added it to my mash + salt (in a Harsch Crock) ...

Worked like a charm ...

 

[Chili Monsta]

ha i thought i was simplifying as i already had powdered culture lol if i add yogurt culture/serum to my existing mash, would it still work?

thanks Dig

I've not used any powered cultures before...and not sure how much salt you used,but I don't see why you couldn't just add some whey and salvage your batch.

If it were me....I'd go to the market and pick up a small container of Oikos Greek Yogurt....which costs around $1.50 or so.
It contains 5 active cultures ( Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidus and Lactobacillus casei).
Put a coffee filter(or better yet cheesecloth if you have some) in a strainer pour in the yogurt and wait a couple hours.
Once you've got 4 or 5 TBS of whey...add it to the mash and seal it up.
Since you're opening the container and exposing the contents to air...you could possibly get some white mold growth after a while.
If so...just open it up, carefully remove the mold without stirring the mash, and add enough brine solution to totally cover the mash and re-seal your container.
The whey should start working in a day or so, and if all goes well, any additional mold should be minimal...and your mash could be ready to use in a month or so. (But don't forget to monitor your pH)

 

[PIC 1]

Why didn't your sourdough culture work? Was it active? What type of crock or vessel were you using?

 

[aram]

I used this ... Acidophilus Probiotic Caplets ... like $6 for 60 caps ...

I put 3 caps in a little water ... and added it to my mash + salt (in a Harsch Crock) ...

Worked like a charm ...

you know, i saw you post this in another thread and went looking for it but the only ones available here were around 15$. i'll definitely look into this as a last resort if all else fails but it looks like the yogurt culture worked. thanks anyway!

so i went and bought some packaged yogurt culture (5$ for 6 5g pouches, contains three strains of bacteria) instead of harvesting my own from yogurt. it seems to be working as my pH is somewhere around 4.7 right now. not sure if it's the salt/garlic or if it's the LAB's that have started fermenting. we'll have to wait and see. i'll check the pH again in a week or two.

again, this is only an experiment as i am trying to find out which method is going to work best for me, if at all. it is such a small amount (about 30 or 40 pods) that i'll most likely just end up tossing it at the end.

what i am having a hard time with is that all along i've been expecting to see some bubbling from "alleged" CO2 production. after a little research however i found out that there are two types of lactic acid fermentation. one that produces CO2 and ethanol and lactic acid (heterofermentative LAB) and one that only produces lactic acid (homofermentative LAB). the three strains that are present in yogurt are of the second type (i.e. bacteria that do not produce CO2) so my question is this: why do people (including me) put airlocks on their fermentation jars?

This is what i've currently done: mason jar with a plastic lid and an airlock. i'm anxious to see whether the water levels in the airlock move at all, indicating some activity. if not, i'm going to test for pH.

edit: PIC1: i may have had active sourdough starter but perhaps the fact that i was expecting to see bubbles made me think that it wasn't. in retrospect, maybe i should've tested for pH at start and finish

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

what i am having a hard time with is that all along i've been expecting to see some bubbling from "alleged" CO2 production. after a little research however i found out that there are two types of lactic acid fermentation. one that produces CO2 and ethanol and lactic acid (heterofermentative LAB) and one that only produces lactic acid (homofermentative LAB). the three strains that are present in yogurt are of the second type (i.e. bacteria that do not produce CO2) so my question is this: why do people (including me) put airlocks on their fermentation jars?

You may or may not see bubbling.

An airlock is used because you're not fermenting something that's sterile, so 'wild' heterofermenative LAB may be present that does give off co2.


~Dig

 

[RocketMan]

What were the other ingredients that you added to your peppers? If the ingredients going into your mash were naturally low in sugars it would result in a not very aggressive mash. The bacteria would then not reproduce in sufficient quantity to create the bubbling you’re looking for. I would suspect that the most you would see would be bubbles within the mash itself. To get a good active fermentation try adding some ingredients that are high in natural sugars. Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, etc.
As for the sourdough starter not working, did you feed your sourdough before adding the hooch to the peppers? I use hooch in all my mashes and when I’m getting ready to do some peppers I’ll feed my started and let it sit out till it develops the hooch I need and then add it to my peppers. This way my bacteria are awake and not hibernating and ready to get to work.
The salt shouldn’t affect the lactobacillus and I don’t think that heating the mash would do anything though it’s unnecessary as the salt added to the mash is there to keep the bad bacteria from taking hold. You mention using a Mason jar but not what size. If you used a quart then you may have added too little, 1/8 tsp, to allow it to get a good start. Usually for a quart you ‘ll want 2 or 3 tbs. My usual run is a gallon to which I add everything that is going into the sauce which gives me plenty of sugars for a good fermentation. I then add ¼ cup of hooch and it takes off like wild fire.
Lastly your water level should be even with the top of the peppers so that they are just covered. You can add a clean sock filled with glass marbles as t weight to hold the peppers down if you wish as they will rise above the water once the fermentation gets going good.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
RM

 

[aram]

thanks for the thorough reply rocketman!

first things first: you're absolutely right, I didn't add any high-sugar vegetables in the mix (only peppers and onions). and duly noted on the sourdough. I can't remember what method I went with last year but it's pretty much whatever i read here. i started a new batch of sourdough starter last week so i'm hoping i'll have enough hooch by the time i start fermenting larger quantities.

here, i took a few pictures:

so it's a one pint mason jar, which is only a little over half full. to this i added 1/8 tsp of powdered CHEESE culture (which i was told won't work). i then added a slightly larger amount of YOGURT culture, probably around 1/2 tsp.

and thanks to this airlock i should see any CO2 that is produced as the water levels won't be ... level lol but as i mentioned earlier, i don't think i'll see any CO2 produced cause the three strains that i have in there do not produce CO2 (i'm sure i killed/suppressed pretty much anything else in there by boiling the jar + peppers and also the added salt). anyway i'm still eager to see some CO2 being produced so i know something's happening. i'll take a pH reading soon

and here's a closeup of the mash, water level's just over the peppers as you suggested

my first all grain batch of beer! this thing was bubbling not even 6 hours after i pitched the yeast in!

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

You don't need more carbohydrate to get a good fermentation, peppers and onions are both higher in carbohydrate than cabbage, which is often fermented alone.

Unless I'm fermenting something that I want to be relatively low in salt, I don't use a starter culture. Stuff ferments just fine.
Patience is key!


~Dig

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

Proper temperature and technique are important too!!!


~Dig

 

[RocketMan]

I always use a starter as I need to keep the salt low for High Blood pressure.

+1 Dog

Proper temperature and technique are important too!!!


~Dig

You have to watch the Temperature. I try to keep mine in the same zone as you would that beer, which looks pretty good. I'm doing Partial myself. Started 5 gallons of Porter, 5 gallons of Austrailian Ale and 5 gallons of Hard Cider on the 3rd. Getting ready to bottle the beer soon the Cider still has another 2 1/2 months but I'll rack it to a secondary as soon as I get one of the beers bottled.

Cheers,
RM

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

You have to watch the Temperature. I try to keep mine in the same zone as you would that beer, which looks pretty good. I'm doing Partial myself. Started 5 gallons of Porter, 5 gallons of Austrailian Ale and 5 gallons of Hard Cider on the 3rd. Getting ready to bottle the beer soon the Cider still has another 2 1/2 months but I'll rack it to a secondary as soon as I get one of the beers bottled.

Cheers,
RM

Cool!!

What juice did you use for your cider....frozen, bottled or fresh?


~Dig

 

[aram]

i made a cider a few months ago with juice bought from costco and champagne yeast. it turned out a little on the dry side due to the yeast used but i still loved it! i'm sure yours will turn out great!

i was doing partial too (i did a few batches and once i developed a system i decided to give all-grain a shot). i would usually get a cooper's kit and add some specialty grains and hops for aroma. i never really knew if i was true to style cause i was adding so much to an already boiled/hopped wort. the one in the picture is a wheat beer. even though i used a bavarian weizen yeast i wouldn't even dare call it a Bavarian wheat beer haha my OG reading was a little on the low side but i still can't wait to try it!

and as for the fermenting peppers, i'll try to have a little more patience. i'll post updates if i see any activity/ changes in pH

 

[RocketMan]

Cool!!

What juice did you use for your cider....frozen, bottled or fresh?


~Dig

Used a combination of 2 gallons of White House Apple Juice with 4 cans of Senica frozen concentrate and Red Star Champagne yeast. It is going to be a dry cider but that's what Reocket Lady likes. I took an SG reading Saturday and it was already at about 8% ABV