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Grow light comparison question

Just wanted to hear from some more experienced growers. I have 1 growing set up using two
45W CFL lightbulbs 3500 lumens (20 bucks each bulb) One on each side of one of these

http://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Hardware/edsallogo/ProductLarge/UR-364BLK.jpg

It worked pretty well for me this past year but I now got another shelving unit and noticed these

lights. 4ft. 2 Lamp High Output T5 Grow Light with Aluminum Reflector and Lamps 10000 lumens (98 bucks)

How much better if at all would these second lights be?

I tried to put in pictures but the links to home depot/rona wouldnt work for some reason
 
bad URL's buddy

Ya for some reason the links would not go . Im not sure why

This is the item I was interested in getting from homedepot.ca

Home Selects
4ft. 2 Lamp High Output T5 Grow Light with Aluminum Reflector and Lamps

Model: 6298 | Internet/Cat: 998788 | Store SKU: 1000749886
 
Just wanted to hear from some more experienced growers. I have 1 growing set up using two
45W CFL lightbulbs 3500 lumens (20 bucks each bulb) One on each side of one of these

http://www.menards.c...e/UR-364BLK.jpg

It worked pretty well for me this past year but I now got another shelving unit and noticed these

lights. 4ft. 2 Lamp High Output T5 Grow Light with Aluminum Reflector and Lamps 10000 lumens (98 bucks)

How much better if at all would these second lights be?

I tried to put in pictures but the links to home depot/rona wouldnt work for some reason


What is your ultimate goal? Are you trying to grow 100% indoors or are you just getting things started for the spring?

If you are just getting an early start, what you have will work fine. Those shelves are what, 4ft wide. The two bulbs you have are 3500 lumens, that's 7000 lumes divided by 4 = roughly 1750 lumens a square foot. That's plenty to get plants started, now if you are going to try and grow your plants out to fruit, then you need more lumens per square foot.

The lowest I've seen recommended is 3000 lumens a square foot. That's minimal acceptable lumens for growing full size plants to maturity. So really it all depends on what you want to do with your grow setup.

The sun produces 75,000 to 100,000 lumens a square foot on a sunny day just for reference. That's why a lot of people like to go with the HID's

1000w HID usually put out around 100,000 lumens

If you're just making some starts for the spring, you will do good with what you have, if anything, I would just add another bulb if you are using up the whole shelf space with plants. It's not necessary though.

More light equals more growth in the end. So just get an idea of what you want to do and what you think you need to do it with and you'll be good.
 
The lowest I've seen recommended is 3000 lumens a square foot. That's minimal acceptable lumens for growing full size plants to maturity. So really it all depends on what you want to do with your grow setup.

Just for reference, my 600w lamp with a MH bulb in it puts out 60,000 lumens so at 3000lumens/sq.ft, that is a 4'x5' area. My grow room is probably 5'x6' total, but the plants aren't all the way to the walls. I also have a HPS bulb that puts out 100,000 lumens, but I like the color of the MH bulb better, the red light of the HPS can get a little hard to look at.
 
What is your ultimate goal? Are you trying to grow 100% indoors or are you just getting things started for the spring?

If you are just getting an early start, what you have will work fine. Those shelves are what, 4ft wide. The two bulbs you have are 3500 lumens, that's 7000 lumes divided by 4 = roughly 1750 lumens a square foot. That's plenty to get plants started, now if you are going to try and grow your plants out to fruit, then you need more lumens per square foot.

The lowest I've seen recommended is 3000 lumens a square foot. That's minimal acceptable lumens for growing full size plants to maturity. So really it all depends on what you want to do with your grow setup.

The sun produces 75,000 to 100,000 lumens a square foot on a sunny day just for reference. That's why a lot of people like to go with the HID's

1000w HID usually put out around 100,000 lumens

If you're just making some starts for the spring, you will do good with what you have, if anything, I would just add another bulb if you are using up the whole shelf space with plants. It's not necessary though.

More light equals more growth in the end. So just get an idea of what you want to do and what you think you need to do it with and you'll be good.

Thanks for putting some numbers out there. My main goal is to sustain all my larger plants in this new unit i am building. I am overwintering 9 plants 7 of which are showing signs of life. Considering the 3000 lumen bulbs cost 20 a piece and the clamps to hold them were 15 each as well it might be financially worth spending 100 bucks for a far more powerful light source. SInce I would need two bulbs and two clamps resulting in 70 bucks total for 6000 lumens vs 100 bucks for 10k lumens.

Here is another option.

http://www.lightingw...&FID=16&level=1

Silver surfer found this one

Thanks for the info. I emailed them to see if they will ship to Canada. These seem like a higher quality product and are made in Europe instead of China which is nice
 
Uh, the sun is around 10k lumens per foot on a bright sunny day.

Ey MWM, thank you for the correction. You know, I've looked this up many times and have gotten many different answers but the majority do say roughly 10,000 lumens a sqft....I'll go with it.
 
Ey MWM, thank you for the correction. You know, I've looked this up many times and have gotten many different answers but the majority do say roughly 10,000 lumens a sqft....I'll go with it.

I read yours and thought nothing of it, then I was like WOAH!! That is a ton of light per foot and even though it is the sun that seems a bit extreme. I had to look it up again just to be sure. :)
 
Don't forget electricity cost in your calculation for expenditure. Many people neglect this rather significant factor.

Lets take a previous example of the 1000W (1kW) HPS setup and do a very simple calculation.

In the UK, electricity is around £0.15 per kWh (Kilo watt hour) and around $0.15 per kWh in the US (I know, we get massively ripped off over here in the UK!)

say you have a pretty standard 16 hours on and 8 hours off (i.e. normal summer growing) that is 16kWh /day = £2.40 ($2.40) /day

It takes approximately 9 months from seed to a full harvest, and if we're a bit sensible we only need an average of half this output for the first 3 months (plants need less light during the vegetative growth phase and are correspondingly smaller)

so 3 months approx 90days at 500W (1.2 $ or £ /day) = $108 (£108)
and 6 months approx 180days at 1000W = $432 (£432)

and a grand total of £540 or $540 for a grow season. I hope you get a lot of chillies in one of these seasons, cos that is a pretty serious electric bill! makes those bulbs seem a bit more pricey when you really think it through.

Hence why the police know that the only financially viable way of being a serious indoor gardener is to grow illegal drugs.

I would love to growing indoors on this scale but to me, the figures just don't stack up, and I haven't even mentioned the cost of equipment, consumables, and the economical value of your time invested in maintaining this setup.
 
@Jonnyb

No doubt there is a cost but just a few points:

1. Personally, I spend far more than €500 on other hobbies per year. Growing peppers is a bit more wholesome a hobby than others like auto racing, doing drugs, or gambling. I only partake in two of the above at time mind you... just kidding. If anyone had to spend $500 a year on a hobby, growing chili's isn't a bad choice for the person, their family, or society... I guess that is my point. Smoking cigs I won't even mention.... spending $300 a month for what?

2. Is the pound per KW really the same as the USD per KW? I have no idea, I live in Germany. The pound is at 1.60 to the dollar. Just curious.

3. Where I live, I can't get good peppers. I can sometimes find Habanero, but normally what I can get is some sort of Serrano variant grown in the Netherlands. I think a lot of people grow and grow indoors because they just can't get good, or exotic, peppers where they live. Our grow season here is short, so if I want to enjoy HOT in the winter I have grow indoors, and if I want to maximize my outdoor season I have to start indoors. Also, I would have to subtract what I spend on peppers per year... they are not cheap here, at least where I live.

4. The OP was talking about 4 T5 HO bulbs. That's only 200 watts. Not 500 or 1000. There are a few of us here that have a discussion going about total cost of ownership for HID vs. Fluorescent vs. LED... seed to harvest. In the end I'm not sure that it matters, see conclusion

Not bagging on anyone here... If folks resort to an indoor grow, as a start or complete, I'm sure they all have a different set of reasons for doing so. Aside from the professional farmer, I don't think cost has the biggest influence. (I know a lot of people who ride $10,000 bicycles, that could have the same enjoyment on a $1,000 unit). Cost aside growing indoors is a viable option, whether you have a real need to do so or are just curious, or jazzed by the technology.
 
Ausmith I completely agree with what you are saying. For most people here, gorwing peppers is principally a hobby and not a way of lowering your supermarket bill (and in the UK you have to go to middle eastern markets in London to get Scotch Bonnets, and supermarket chillies are generally rubbish tasting and uninteresting). I also have a small indoor grow setup now to get my plants kick-started through winter ready for spring, not because I want year round chillies, (although that would be nice) but because I couldn't wait till spring to plant, and am expecting a much greater crop from planting early (English weather is generally quite poor as I'm sure you will have heard).

My point was to make people aware of the cost involved (many people don't really think about it till they get their electric bill back) and this highlights the importance of efficient use of light you are providing them. I am just using 2*36W CFL bulbs and foil reflectors growing 15 plants which are about 3 months old now, which has been working fine (a bit of a stretch but don't want to add any more lights) and not too expensive to run around £5.50 /month.

1. Definitely agree though that it is a rewarding hobby and worth the effort.
2. The cost per kWh are average figures I found on the internet, yes UK electricity is significantly more expensive than the US (~50% more), but it is dependent on a number of factors, time of the day (cheaper at night), location (California has higher bills than most other states), electricity provider and contract etc.
3. This is my main reason for growing peppers, I want to try them but can't readily get good peppers cheaply (except in middle-eastern markets where scotch bonnets are £1 for a big bag of 15 or so of them :).
4. With bulbs it's all about outlay cost and their efficiency. HPS and HID's apparently are the most efficient 130 and 100 lumens/watt respectively, although this is also size dependent. White LED's are usually 60-90 lumens/watt, for coloured LED's it's a little harder to gauge because lumen output is lower but in the frequencies which are needed for photosynthetic processes by the plant, CFL's are around 60-80, however I think T5 fluorescent bulbs are reputed to be the most efficient fluorescent ones, and obviously reflectors are just as important.

I love all the technology available to indoor growing (thanks cannabis growers) but don't have a lot of money to finance this hobby (I'm a PhD student) so cost-effectiveness is my main interest.
 
One thing I will add is that Craigslist is your friend regarding lights. Living in Colorado is nice because the growers on Craigslist offering lights for sale is insane. I picked up a brand new in the box Hydrofarm Designer 4' 8 bulb T5 unit for my son for Christmas for less than $90. Certainly worth a visit to CL.
 
(English weather is generally quite poor as I'm sure you will have heard).
I do a lot of business in the UK and much of it is weather dependent, so yes I know exactly how crappy your weather is. Ours in Germany is not much better, if at all.

My point was to make people aware of the cost involved (many people don't really think about it till they get their electric bill back) and this highlights the importance of efficient use of light you are providing them.
Good point. There certainly is a cost. Energy is not free!

I love all the technology available to indoor growing (thanks cannabis growers) but don't have a lot of money to finance this hobby (I'm a PhD student) so cost-effectiveness is my main interest.
I hear ya!
 
Close friend of mine brings a few superhots to ripe with a t5 setup. A 4 lamp setup. Craigslist for your lights for sure...really no sense in burning $$ on a new fixture considering how simple they are.
 
I second the craigslist idea, just beware that you may need to get new bulbs. I don't know how much I would trust the used bulbs that other people sell (especially with HID bulbs, you would probably be fine with fluorescents).

It can be a great way to get complete kits though. I think I saw someone selling a 600W ballast, reflector, bulbs, and hanging kit for $120. However, 600W was too much for me so I just purchased a 250W kit from ebay for the same price.
 
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