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Hoop House Advice

wordwiz said:
Pam,

The point I was trying to make was that I'm not sure the benefit exceeds the effort.

Obviously it would for you, but not for me.

People building solar greenhouses in both North and South America, the ones with the actual experience, think the benefit exceeds the effort. I have carefully pointed out that I recognize the limitations of the system, particularly in an uninsulated structure. I'm blonde, not stupid.


This would suggest using 50-100 bottles of water would add some heat (I don't have a clue how much) overnight, but you have to remember - the bottles will also act as an air conditioner during daytime.

Exactly! Precisely! And anytime the temperatures get above 70F on a sunny day, which is not uncommon in our winters, the water will help moderate extreme daytime heat as well as freezing nighttime temperatures. It's a twofer!


If the air is 75 degrees and the water is 70 degrees, they will give off cold air (or absorb the hot air) until they heat up. And if they are not close to a window or the plastic, it will take them quite a while to warm. Not to mention, during winter time, there are lots of days where the sun never seems to shine (SAD comes to mind).

And on the nights that follow those days, I will not be depending on the water to hold temps in the hoop house above freezing.


If it were I and I was looking at a long term solution,

Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeempoooooooooooooorary Hoop House.


It will be coming down in the spring, remember?


I would probably use something like an old fashioned grill or a fireplace where the heat would be diverted through an insulation-wrapped air duct into you hoop house. Then again, I used a kerosene heater for a few years and it never hurt any plants growing inside, as long as I made sure to light it outside and not bring it in for a couple of minutes. The heater I had (years ago!) 3/4 gallon of fuel every day, but it ran 24 hours at it's highest setting. You might be able to use it for just eight hours a day at a lower setting, meaning a daily cost of less than a buck.

Did you skip over the bit where Potawie kindly explained how he heats his greenhouse and we talked about the advantages and disadvantages of various heaters?

Look, nothing beats a try but a failure. The bottles are free, and the cost of the water is minimal. What have I got to lose by trying it?
 
High Winds

Well, here comes a different sort of challenge. We're having a cold front move in, and it's a gusty one. I've been concerned about the performance of the hoop house in high winds, and I guess I'm about to find out if those spring clips will hold.

Once I got this up, I realized the the directions I had didn't leave any room on the edges for the plastic to be anchored well. My plan was to run some boards along there for this season and staple the plastic to the boards, but I haven't had the time to do that yet. Next year, before putting it up, I think I'm going to shorten the rib poles by about 6 inches so there is enough of an flap of plastic left over that I can anchor it with bricks.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the spring clips hold for now.
 
People building solar greenhouses in both North and South America, the ones with the actual experience, think the benefit exceeds the effort. I have carefully pointed out that I recognize the limitations of the system, particularly in an uninsulated structure. I'm blonde, not stupid.

I don't recall saying or insinuating you were - stupid that is.


Exactly! Precisely! And anytime the temperatures get above 70F on a sunny day, which is not uncommon in our winters, the water will help moderate extreme daytime heat as well as freezing nighttime temperatures. It's a twofer!

And on the nights that follow those days, I will not be depending on the water to hold temps in the hoop house above freezing.

I wrongly presumed the concern was not those mild winter days when the sun is bright and the outside temps are moderate, I was thinking more about the weeks when the sun doesn't seem to shine for a few days in a row and the warmest it gets is 20 degrees. Your record lows are in the negatives in January and single digits in the second and third months.



Teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeempoooooooooooooorary Hoop House.

It will be coming down in the spring, remember?

Well, if you are only planning on doing it this one year, then it makes more sense. Again, I presumed wrongly. I figured if it worked this year, you would try it again next year, and maybe the following year, and perhaps the year after that - you know - LONG TERM!

Did you skip over the bit where Potawie kindly explained how he heats his greenhouse and we talked about the advantages and disadvantages of various heaters?

Uh, that's one thing I've learned not to do. Did YOU skip over the part of my experiences using a kerosene heater? While it's true that a build-up of CO can damage plants, it also seems there are a lot of other factors. Also, from reading your descriptions of your hoop house, it doesn't sound like it is completely sealed, especailly if you are worried about it blowing away (which I hope it doesn't!).

BTW, what are you using as the main source of heat should a frigid blast of winter hit?

Look, nothing beats a try but a failure. The bottles are free, and the cost of the water is minimal. What have I got to lose by trying it?
That's for sure. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
wordwiz said:
I don't recall saying or insinuating you were - stupid that is.

You didn't., but you don't seem to grasp that I am fully aware of the limitations and risks of the system I have selected to house my plants. Really, I am. You also seem a bit frustrated that I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in grossly over-engineering a simple hoop house. Up thread I posted a link to my dream solar greenhouse. If I were going to expend that much money and effort, it would be toward that, not toward a temporary, experimental structure.


I wrongly presumed the concern was not those mild winter days when the sun is bright and the outside temps are moderate, I was thinking more about the weeks when the sun doesn't seem to shine for a few days in a row and the warmest it gets is 20 degrees. Your record lows are in the negatives in January and single digits in the second and third months.

Ya know, that thing about records is that they're, well, records. They don't happen but rarely, or they wouldn't be worthy of comment. I'm trying to remember when the last single digit day around here, too; and I think maybe it was 4 or 5? years ago?

I did mention,in fact in a response to you, that with my luck this would be the fist winter in 3 or 4 years where we had some bitterly cold weather. (Not that I wouldn't welcome it, the fleas have been horrible around here the last two summers.)


Well, if you are only planning on doing it this one year, then it makes more sense. Again, I presumed wrongly. I figured if it worked this year, you would try it again next year, and maybe the following year, and perhaps the year after that - you know - LONG TERM!

Long term I want my solar greenhouse. And I mean WANT! Plus I'm just not interested in building some expensive and ugly wart of a heating system in the middle of my yard on the off chance that this is going to be one of our rare, bitter winters. Remember, too, that I said I was trying to bring this in under a certain budget.


Uh, that's one thing I've learned not to do. Did YOU skip over the part of my experiences using a kerosene heater?

Well then, you saw where I said I was probably going to keep an eye out for a small kerosene heater on sale to sooth my worries for the few bitterly cold nights we have, right?

BTW, what are you using as the main source of heat should a frigid blast of winter hit?

Right now?

Gently pat their leaves, and tell the peppers, "Gooo tooooward the liiiight."

The hoop house is an experiment. Sometimes experiments fail.
 
Pam,

I hope it works - it's the three of four years of Boy Scouting that couses me to look at what "might" happen. Good thing you're down there instead in Cincy - we have had a severe shortage of sunlight this week. Not much rain, just overcast days. Even with my plants in a southwest window, I'm having to run lights about eight hours a day. Otherwise, they would get about one hour of direct sunlight a day. SAD in November?
 
magniloquent
adj. - using high-flown language; bombastic.

Lofty and extravagant in speech; grandiloquent.
 
hoop house

pam i looked at the hoop house plans some time ago and decided i would have to fabricate a wooden door or make one out of pvc
 
cliff n york said:
pam i looked at the hoop house plans some time ago and decided i would have to fabricate a wooden door or make one out of pvc

Yeah, I found the bit about a door in the plans I had rather hand wavy and vague. I ended up putting an extra rib right next to the outside rib of the hoop house. I did that on both ends, but I have them covered with plastic rather than try and rig some sort of door. When I want to go in and out, I just lift the plastic. If the temperatures get up into the 70's and it's sunny, I roll the plastic up and clip it so it doesn't get too hot inside.

Not the most satisfactory arrangement, but since it is a temporary structure, I wanted a guy-type of door.
 
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