Leaf Diagnosis

I'm guessing it's chlorosis from water logged roots. Explanation: I mulch to prevent the myriad of disease that affect my tomatoes peppers and basil. This is the first year mulching peppers, and even with the long periods of dry weather, the soil remains wet. I'm aware peppers don't like this but I'm surprised the soil doesn't dry out even with the lack of rain for long periods. I'm concerned this is already leading to leaf disease, please see photos. What's the prognosis?
 
 
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I'm thinking I may have to remove the mulch after the threat of showers ceases?
 
For the record my garden is a particulary hot environment that usually grows some great peppers. It's surprising that the soil is staying wet with the mulch. I've watered twice in a month, with a 3 day period of heavy rain, and right now scattered showers. Otherwise, borderline drought. Granted we haven't seen an extended period of mid 80s yet, but it's still dry with full sun most of the time.
 
I would put that down as needing some K and some magnesium. Maybe even some N for good measure.
Id probably give them some good well rounded fert and a little extra magnesium
 
Much worse today. Going at about the same speed as last year, very fast. And the only ones affected so far are the ones that suffered the worst last year, fatalii and "red savina".
 
Every other plant in the garden is fine except a potted basil plant, which hasn't dried out for a week and half due to a crappy draining pot. Same soil as the garden and the other basil plants in the garden do not show symptoms. I have horrific times with downy mildew.
 
No signs point to nutrient deficiency. Not that I've ever had one. The garden is full of organic material and I dump a bag of crab shell mix when I turn it over. My tomatoes are dark green with stems like an oak already.
 
spicymeatball said:
 
No signs point to nutrient deficiency. Not that I've ever had one.
 
You have one now. Two of us can see it plain as day.
 
Magnesium+Deficiency.jpg

 
"Magnesium deficiency (as seen in this photo) may be exhibited with chlorosis, leaf curl, stunted plants and fruit, among other symptoms.  Magnesium builds the cell walls, aid in photosynthesis and aids in fruit production."
 
If it's time to water use 1 tablespoon per gallon epson salt. Do a drench and foliar spray early in the morning. You may need another foliar spray a week later.
 
I see Chlorosis. I'll wait for a reasonable explanation as to why it's a magnesium deficiency and not overwatering. In the meantime, I'll worry about the virulent disease I have affecting two of the varieties of peppers that had it last year.

FTR, I started these from seed. Never once did I feed with magnesium.
 
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\baffled
 
interveinal chlorosis (chlorosis between the veins) = magnesium  / K
 
see below from
http://hortipm.tamu.edu/ipmguide/nutrient/diagnosi.html
 
if that's not a reasonable explanation then i dont know what is. And just because you have good organic soil it does not mean you will forever be free from nutrient issues. :)
 
 
Macronutrients:
Nitrogen(N)
 - Restricted growth of tops and roots and especially lateral shoots. Plants become spindly with gen eral chlorosis of entire plant to a light green and then a yellowing of older leaves which proceeds toward younger leaves. Older leaves defoliate early.

Phosphorus(P) - Restricted and spindly growth similar to that of nitrogen deficiency. Leaf color is usually dull dark green to bluish green with purpling of petioles and the veins on underside of younger leaves. Younger leaves may be yellowish green with purple veins with N deficiency and darker green with P deficiency. Otherwise, N and P deficiencies are very much alike. 

Potassium(K) - Older leaves show interveinal chlorosis and marginal necrotic spots or scorching which progresses inward and also upward toward younger leaves as deficiency becomes more sever.
Secondary Nutrients:
Calcium (Ca)
 - From slight chlorosis to brown or black scorching of new leaf tips and die-back of growing points. The scorched and die-back portion of tissue is very slow to dry so that it does not crumble easily. Boron deficiency also causes scorching of new leaf tips and die-back of growing points, but calcium deficiency does not promote the growth of lateral shoots and short internodes as does boron deficiency.

Magnesium (Mg) - Interveinal chlorotic mottling or marbling of the older leaves which proceeds toward the younger leaves as the deficiency becomes more severe. The chlorotic interveinal yellow patches usually occur toward the center of the leaf with the margins being the last to turn yellow. In some crops, the interveinal yellow patches are followed by necrotic spots or patches and marginal scorching of the leaves.

Sulfur(S) - Resembles nitrogen deficiency in that older leaves become yellowish green and the stems become thin, hard, and woody. Some plants show colorful orange and red tints rather than yellowing. The stems, although hard and woody, increase in length but not in diameter.
Micronutrients:
Iron (Fe) 
- Starts with interveinal chlorotic mottling of immature leaves and in severe cases the new leaves become completely lacking in chlorophyll but with little or no necrotic spots. The chlorotic mottling on immature leaves may start first near the bases of the leaflets so that in effect the middle of the leaf appears to have a yellow streak.

Manganese(Mn) - Starts with interveinal chlorotic mottling of immature leaves and, in many plants, it is indistinguishable from that of iron. On fruiting plants, the blossom buds often do not fully develop and turn yellow or abort. As the deficiency becomes more severe, the new growth becomes completely yellow but, in contrast to iron necrotic spots, usually appear in the interveinal tissue.

Zinc (Zn) - In some plants, the interveinal chlorotic mottling first appears on the older leaves and in others, it appears on the immature leaves. It eventually affects the growing points of all plants. The interveinal chlorotic mottling may be the same as that for iron and manganese except for the development of exceptionally small leaves. When zinc deficiency onset is sudden such as the zinc left out of the nutrient solution, the chlorosis can appear identical to that of iron and manganese without the little leaf.

Boron (B) - From slight chlorosis to brown or black scorching of new leaf tips and die-back of the growing points similar to calcium deficiency. Also the brown and black die-back tissue is very slow to dry so that it can not be crumbled easily. Both the pith and epidermis of stems may be affected as exhibited by hollow stems to roughened and cracked stems.

Copper(Cu) - Leaves at top of the plant wilt easily followed by chlorotic and necrotic areas in the leaves. Leaves on top half of plant may show unusual puckering with veinal chlorosis. Absence of a knot on the leaf where the petiole joins the main stem of the plant beginning about 10 or more leaves below the growing point.

Molybdenum(Mo) - Older leaves show interveinal chlorotic blotches, become cupped and thickened. Chlorosis continues upward to younger leaves as deficiency progresses.
 
http://extension.illinois.edu/focus/index.cfm?problem=chlorosis
 
"Possible causes of chlorosis include poor drainage, damaged roots, compacted roots, high alkalinity, and nutrient deficiencies in the plant."
 
If you are familiar with science, when faced with multiple causes, it's incorrect to assume which one it is. Like said multiple times in this thread all other plants, except the ones similar to the plant photographed, do not exhibit the same symptoms. They are almost all nightshades (eggplant tomatoes and peppers). This would remove soil nutrients from suspicion since they are planted in the same soil.
 
It's my understanding that Capsicum Chinense are more sensitive to constantly wet soil. The only plants with chlorosis symptoms are Capsicum Chinense.  The annuums are fine.
 
This thread is about disease and the possible remedy to my mulching issue. I'm well aware of chlorosis and the possible causes. Typical thehotpepper light your hair on fire about nutrients bs.
 
And just because you have good organic soil it does not mean you will forever be free from nutrient issues
 
 
I'm aware of what I am growing and amend the soil appropriately.
 
spicymeatball said:
It's my understanding that Capsicum Chinense are more sensitive to constantly wet soil. The only plants with chlorosis symptoms are Capsicum Chinense.  The annuums are fine.
 
Yep, they are. Poor drainage is not good for Chinenses, infact pretty much anything in the Solanum family
Therefore, if the 'root cause' is poor drainage you need to remedy that situation. Does your soil have a high clay content?
Maybe you need to build up your soil ie: raised garden beds or dig trenches and put 'aggie pipe' in to draw away the excess moisture (might sound extreme but hey, you have a drainage problem)
One of the purposes of mulching is to reduce evaporation. Sounds like it's working too well, therefore remove the mulch.
 
As I said in my 1st post you are potentially in the early stages of a fungal / bacterial  outbeak.
You said you had BLS last year - the spores from this can 'overwinter' in the soil to flare up again at a later date. Waterlogged soils are an ideal environment for this to occur.
 
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a 'quick fix' solution to your issues, it is more than just a nutrient deficiency.
 
 
spicymeatball said:
 Typical thehotpepper light your hair on fire about nutrients bs.
 
I agree that this occurs all too much here, it seems calmag is the goto solution for everything here on THP.
 
But, people are only trying to help so don't be a 'grumpy panda' with comments like that 'cause you'll find that people will be less inclined to help!!
It's just the nature of forums, you need to sort through the responses and take out of them what you will.
 
Sorry if I came off grumpy but they weren't helping. Tried a couple times to steer them back on track but they kept coming back with th4 nUteS!!!1

The soil isn't clay but it is a heavier soil that I may have been getting away with because of the full sun and limited watering. But now I think with the mulching it's preventing the sun from hitting the soil directly and keeping it wet, in addition to what you said preventing evaporation.
 
It's probably as simple as get rid of the mulch. The soil splash is bad though.
 
spicymeatball said:
http://extension.illinois.edu/focus/index.cfm?problem=chlorosis
 
"Possible causes of chlorosis include poor drainage, damaged roots, compacted roots, high alkalinity, and nutrient deficiencies in the plant."
 
If you are familiar with science, when faced with multiple causes, it's incorrect to assume which one it is. Like said multiple times in this thread all other plants, except the ones similar to the plant photographed, do not exhibit the same symptoms. They are almost all nightshades (eggplant tomatoes and peppers). This would remove soil nutrients from suspicion since they are planted in the same soil.
 
It's my understanding that Capsicum Chinense are more sensitive to constantly wet soil. The only plants with chlorosis symptoms are Capsicum Chinense.  The annuums are fine.
 
This thread is about disease and the possible remedy to my mulching issue. I'm well aware of chlorosis and the possible causes. Typical thehotpepper light your hair on fire about nutrients bs.
 
 
I'm aware of what I am growing and amend the soil appropriately.
 
If you are familiar with one species being more sensitive to moisture then surely you have heard that different phenotypes even can need more or less of a specific element?
 
Did you homogenize the entire growing area? If so why does this mystery disease stay in the same spot? Also plants with nutrient deficiencies are more
susceptible to disease. I'm sure last year you didnt tell everyone it wasnt the nutrients.
 
If you get to make generalizations like "typical thehotpepper light your hair on fire itz teh nut3z" can I just assume you're what is generally called a "Masshole"?
And if you were aware of the chlorosis and possible causes why werent you aware that nutrient deficiency is a possible cause of disease?
 
Let's science it out.
 
First off yes I'm a masshole. But even if I lived in Kentucky, I would have flipped to a$$hole mode after 5 posts of repeated rambling about nutrient deficiency with about 10% of the knowledge needed to diagnosis the symptoms.
 
I was aware of all the possible causes of chlorosis. It took me 6 seconds to find them out on the internet... a long time ago. Logic points to it not being a nutrient deficiency. All that logic is above if you care to reread. This thread is about the apparent disease that is starting. From the first suggestion of posstible magnesium deficiency and the recommendation of epsom salt foliar spray, I planned on giving it a shot. I'll let you know the results.
 
I'm pretty sure I already logiced why the root cause of the alleged disease is really nute deficiency.
 
You never answered about your homogenized beds or anything really.
 
Because none of it really matters. You didn't logic anything. You blurted out magnesium deficiency, not iron, nitrogen? And never mentioned the 7 other things it could possibly be.
 
Alleged disease? The plant is diseased. yikes. have a good one.
 
You asked for opinions on what it could be. 
We gave you opinions. You disagreed with our opinions, so we backed them up with info about why we came to the conclusion we did, and why our prognosis is actually a possibility.
 
You had already decided on what you think the problem is when you made this thread - Im sorry if we don't agree with your prognosis. 
 
I agree that general chlorosis can be caused by over watering. But you don't have general chlorosis, you have intervenial chlorosis leading to dead patches on the leaves, on a specific part of the plant.
 
Some plants just need more. Or less.
 
nzchili said:
You asked for opinions on what it could be. 
We gave you opinions. You disagreed with our opinions, so we backed them up with info about why we came to the conclusion we did, and why our prognosis is actually a possibility.
 
You had already decided on what you think the problem is when you made this thread - Im sorry if we don't agree with your prognosis. 
 
I agree that general chlorosis can be caused by over watering. But you don't have general chlorosis, you have intervenial chlorosis leading to dead patches on the leaves, on a specific part of the plant.
 
Some plants just need more. Or less.
 
Ya.
 
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