Naga Viper - When was it first available?

[KrakenPeppers]

You know what, I'm gonna put some of those Viper seeds in the dirt tomorrow.  Why not?  I already have more seedlings than I know what to do with XD

 
When in doubt throw 10 more seeds in of another variety ... When bored... Throw in 10 as well ... lol
 
I know how you feel, I done a rough head count of popped seeds atm .. I've got about 400 atm and another 50 ready to pop.. I know Im over budget by 400 plants including my adults but I still keep buying and planting lol

 

[KrakenPeppers]

I am trying to figure out when the Naga Viper first came into existence.  I know that Guinness recognized it as the world's hottest in 2011 but looking for some thing more along the lines of when seeds were first available.

 
Are you researching the 7 Pod Katie by any chance ??     

 

[AJ Drew]

Kraken, going over budget means having less of something else.  I can deal with that aspect of my planting addiction.  What bugs me is when I overgrow and then cant get them all into the ground in a timely manner.

 
Are you researching the 7 Pod Katie by any chance ??     

Nope, but curious to know why you would ask.  Is it another weird one?  Some folk don't get my obsession with these things.  It is kind of like playing the CSI game.  You get to find clues, piece them together, form a theory.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

" The Katie has now been officially recorded at a staggering 1,590,000 Scoville-units.
This Chilli has been grown and developed by a grower in Wiltshire UK.
 
The 'Katie' Chilli has smashed the British record by 200,000 Scovilles.
7 Pod Katie Chilli Pepper is a Chinense type and was grown and bred in the UK by a gentleman by the name of Nick Duran, also known as Naga Nick,  Katie is a Hybrid cross between the ex Guinness Record holding Naga Viper and the Red 7 pod.
 
When I read this, with the Viper and Guiness Record refrences I thought it might of tweaked your interest to ask more.. It does look like one to grow, but I don't know what filial its at currently..

 

[Helvete]

The "Lucy" is supposed to be 7 Pot Jonah X Naga Viper.
 
I bet it's hotter.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

The "Lucy" is supposed to be 7 Pot Jonah X Naga Viper.
 
I bet it's hotter.

What seems to be unusual though is that it's the cross to Lower Scoville peppers that seem to unlock the heat, wether due to placental size , types of capsaicin or what I don't know.. It's like crossing a scorpion and Habanero and it's twice as hot as the scorpion etc ..

 

[Helvete]

Just a theory, but it could be similar to why a Liger gets so large.  Male lions normally inherit a growth inhibiting gene from their mothers which stabilizes their size but when they aren't getting those genes because their mother is a tiger it makes them grow phenomenally large.  Totally different aspects of biology but maybe in some way it's related.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

From what I have researched there are a number of capsicanoids that produce heat, each type has a different effect eg. Mouth burn , gum burn, slow build, violent fast, short lived, long lived etc. these varying types of capsaicin are in varying levels in certain geno's ..

My theory is when you take say a low heat pod that might have a violent burn type ( can't be felt much due to low amounts though just feels like a quick sting ) and mix it with a high volume nuclear that might have a build up , the second parent makes the first type of capsaicin produce in equally high quantities making the F1 a pepper with an initial violent burn (that hurts due to high quantity) and the. Builds further into that burn via the secondary type of capsaicin .. There by getting you a hotter pepper via a hot and cold mix ...

Could obviously not work too if they had matching types of capsaicin or two nuclear a could get hotter by both having lots of different stuff already etc ..

 

[AJ Drew]

I -think- the article I am remembering was from CPI.  The article identified five types of burn, gave each a name, and might have gone as far as to connect particular capsicum types to the burn types.  Thinking if you used those things as a framework, you could see if other breeders observe the same.

Kind of like defining a common language.  Might help folk like me learn more cause I am honestly not tracking what you are saying very well.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

I -think- the article I am remembering was from CPI.  The article identified five types of burn, gave each a name, and might have gone as far as to connect particular capsicum types to the burn types.  Thinking if you used those things as a framework, you could see if other breeders observe the same.

Kind of like defining a common language.  Might help folk like me learn more cause I am honestly not tracking what you are saying very well.

 
Lets call violent burn (V)  and slow build (B)...  
 
Pepper No #1 is rated at 200,000 scovilles and gives an initial violent burn (V)... Due to the low amounts of capsaicin  while it hits hard it doesn't peak high or last too long..
 
Pepper No #2 is rated at 1,000,000 scovilles and has a steady build to that nuclear heat (S) ... Due to the high amounts of Capsaicin it build high and last's long..
 
We then cross pepper No #1  with pepper No #2 and get Pepper No #3.
 
Pepper No #3 has the Large capsaicin production and placenta that Pepper No #2 had and the (S) burn... But its also picked up the (V) burn from pepper No#1... The (V) has now got access to Pepper No #3's capsaicin production and larger placenta allowing greater amounts of the (V) to be created ....
 
Result...  Pepper No #3 has still got the Long building (S) ,1,000,000 scoville burn but the pepper has now increased on pepper No #1's 200,000 heat by increasing up to 500,000 scoville (V) burn ontop..
 
Pepper No #1    200,000      (V) Burn
 
Pepper No #2    1,000,000   (S) Burn
 
Pepper No #3    1,500,000   (V+S) Burn
 
So rather than a hot and cold pepper averaging out at 600,000 it actually increases due to different capsaicin types..  Or so I think..

 

[AJ Drew]

Got it.  What you are thinking is that there are genes,maybe even dominant and recessive, for things like violent burn and slow building burn.  I'd go even further and say two not so hot peppers could result in a super hot because for all I know the gene for super hot is recessive.  Basically, i am admitting ignorance beyond the simple concept of dominant and recessive genes.

Have done some crossing, but just screwing around.  None too bright.  Not trying to create the worlds hottest or the most pest resistant.  Would like to create a local pepper that my local town could claim kind of just for fun thing to do. 

 

 

[KrakenPeppers]

Got it.  What you are thinking is that there are genes,maybe even dominant and recessive, for things like violent burn and slow building burn.  I'd go even further and say two not so hot peppers could result in a super hot because for all I know the gene for super hot is recessive.  Basically, i am admitting ignorance beyond the simple concept of dominant and recessive genes.

Have done some crossing, but just screwing around.  None too bright.  Not trying to create the worlds hottest or the most pest resistant.  Would like to create a local pepper that my local town could claim kind of just for fun thing to do. 

 

I like to think it like more of venom glands, some hold more than others and some are different more toxic types.. Breeding two types together may give you two types of toxin instead of one, and if your lucky you get to keep the larger venom glands instead of the smaller ones.. Lol... I wouldn't say its a resecive over dominant thing rather more of a extra gene being active that wasn't before that alows production of the new capsaicin.

Capsaicin C 69% 15,000,000
Dihydrocapsaicin DHC 22% 15,000,000
Nordihydrocapsaicin NDHC 7% 9,100,000
Homodihydrocapsaicin HDHC 1% 8,600,000
Homocapsaicin HC 1% 8,600,000
There we are,the compounds that make us burn and why stacking them in the same chilli could make them hotter

 

[AJ Drew]

Well ya know a Naga is a large cobra deity sort of thing.  Not really sure I even come close to understanding the pre Christian religion of Nagaland.  With head hunters n all, it doesn't seem to resemble most Hindu based religion, but they do have some unusual deities even today.