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organic organic vs in-organic?

Thank you for sharing that article, Capsicum, it is an interesting read. When I read it I was struck by the fact that some nutritionist was speaking about the impact of pesticides upon the body. Wouldn't a chemist or a biologist be a better person to ask about the current state of research into the physiology of consuming pesticides? I'm pretty thorough, so I went out and googled the person cited in the article from Science Daily. I came across this scathing critique of her statements:

http://www.nutritionresearchcenter.org/healthnews/organics-are-better-article-is-so-slanted-it-can-make-you-sicker-than-a-bag-of-ddt/


I don't like he said/she said types of debates so I wanted to confirm that there is actually research out there that supports the assertion that organic food is better for you. This is another counter argument that refutes the assertion that "levels of pesticides currently used haven't been found to be harmful."


http://howtoeliminatepain.com/pesticides/statistics-on-why-food-pesticides-are-so-dangerous-to-your-health/


What is not in this link is that agriculture in North America is shaped more and more by Mosanto, and Mosanto basically has politicians in their back pocket (a whole other topic that is well documented, but outside of what this forum is about). Guess who decides which type of research is funded, and who makes the decision about what levels of pesticides are "safe"? I think it is absolutely inevitable that some pseudo quack researchers will try to make a quick buck by selling their souls and telling the public that supermarket food that has been sprayed down by dozens if not hundreds of toxic chemicals is just as good for you as organic produce. They are as credible as those teams of scientists in the 60s and 70s who conducted all sorts of "research" showing that smoking is not harmful.
 
Is Organic Overrated?
Depends on how much money multinational corporations pay to pharmaceuticals to tell you.

We should ask
Are Synthetic Fertilizers Overrated?

This is a joke right?
"Disclaimer: This article is not intended to provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of ScienceDaily or its staff."
Re consider your source. :rofl:

Then again who can you trust, half of the FDA and EPA is ex Monsanto ;)

The law that gave the right to patent life was written by Monsanto...
monsanto-employees-government-revolving-door.jpg





Also Growing Organic and Eating Organic are separate things.

I eat What I can afford and unfortunately that isn't always veggies let alone organic. It is cheaper to eat fast food than it is to buy fresh food and cook. And that is a shame!

I dont grow Organic so I can eat organic, I grow organic because it is cheaper and produces better results for the price. Sure you can go to Wal-mart and get MG products for cheap and grow plants, but that alone is not enough, you need Cal, Mag, Pesticides, etc.

I had a old Fish tank pump so all I needed was a few air stones and I was in business. The biggest veggies on the planet are grown in optimal organic conditions that utilize symbiotic relationships that you cant get with synthetics.

Plants have adapted to DEPEND on these relationships in nature. Take that away, and you have to "synthesize" the real thing with synthetics. ;)

You dont seem to get that, like synthetics, organic is different from grower to grower. Just like there is a difference between Dyna Grow, Advanced Nutrients, and Miracle Grow.
The trick to Organic is having the optimal environment for a healthy soil food web to thrive. Is that harder than synthetics? I say no but that is subjective.

There is NO PROOF that one is better than the other!
However, if you want to grow monster plants on synthetics it will take more money, and lots of experience with your mediums and products. Growing Using "newer style" organics like , utilizing Mycorrhizea, Biofilm, and maintaining a optimal soil food web, is idoit proof once you get the general idea of ANAEROBIC vs AEROBIC. Organic is WAY more forgiving than traditional fertilizers.

I dont want to get in to mine is better... more that I don't want to see you bashing organic. If you dont think organic is as good cool. I am telling you that if done right it is.

The only reason I care is I dont want people to see your posts and be misled by BS BIAS articles.
 
How many years did you grow in-organic peppers and how many years organic peppers. Just trying to see if your comparisons of bug attacks can really be compared.

I know Guru will have some years under his belt.
 
Where I live most people are 100% organic with the exception of spraying some Mirex on the seed when planting to keep the ants from taking the seed.
I do the same but most of my stuff gets started in grow bags in a greenhouse.The locals wallet cant handle the expense of a fancy greenhouse.
Beans and corn I treat exactly like they do.
Poke the hole with a stick, drop the seed, spray with a backpack, rake to cover the holes. From then on out it's organic.
The problem in the empire is that the natural predators for garden pests have been reduced to near extinction levels, over the last 50 years, making pest control extremely difficult.

I should have grabbed a video yesterday. Had a big batch of grasshoppers(couple hundred) hatch out on a ginger. Within an hour there were lizards and birds everywhere getting rid of them.
If I get bitten by a mosquito I can set my watch as to when the Costa Rican air force ( dragonflies) rolls in to solve the problem. They're soon followed by kites that get rid of them.
Thanks to many snakes, mice are a non issue too.

I do have a squirrel pissing me off by biting my avocados.We have a date.Lead is organic, right ?
 
As a wheat farmer and a gardner, I do not like to have to use chemicals. But sometimes they are neccessary. Like now, I am battling a grass hopper outbreak. If I hit with a pesticide while they are small, it takes one treatment with a pesticide that has a short llife span. I prefer to use Sevin when possible. As far as yields, I have never compared. When it comes to peppers and tomatoes, they are pretty hearty, even after an insect attack. I am one of those that can only eat so many super hots in a year!lol That's because I am single and not many of my neighbors like super hots. Now tomatoes, I can give all I can grow away if I wanted to. But that doesn't happen until I have made all the salsa I can eat until next year. We have to remember, it is not you and I we are trying to please, it is the cinsumer. That is why white flour, white bread, white egg shells , white sugar is the norm.. Believe me, I do not like seeing part of my profit going to buy pesticide, fungicide and herbicides. But sometimes it is a neccessary evil. I am more worried about thecity deweller who has ready access to pesticide, herbicides and fungicides, who thinks if a little it good, more must be better. I have the DEQ and EPA looking over my shoulder, but who looks over the city gardener???
 
Also a side note for this debate. Really doesnt involve the differences

But with organic side (for me) i love it. I get to mix different ingredients in and you get to spend a bunch more time with the plants. And gettings hand dirty and the organic smells. Cant beat it!!! Much more fun than mixing some chemicals in a pail of water and feeding them hoping you dont burn them

Cayennemist said:
Is Organic Overrated?
Depends on how much money multinational corporations pay to pharmaceuticals to tell you.

We should ask
Are Synthetic Fertilizers Overrated?

This is a joke right?
"Disclaimer: This article is not intended to provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of ScienceDaily or its staff."
Re consider your source. :rofl:

Then again who can you trust, half of the FDA and EPA is ex Monsanto ;)

The law that gave the right to patent life was written by Monsanto...
monsanto-employees-government-revolving-door.jpg





Also Growing Organic and Eating Organic are separate things.

I eat What I can afford and unfortunately that isn't always veggies let alone organic. It is cheaper to eat fast food than it is to buy fresh food and cook. And that is a shame!

I dont grow Organic so I can eat organic, I grow organic because it is cheaper and produces better results for the price. Sure you can go to Wal-mart and get MG products for cheap and grow plants, but that alone is not enough, you need Cal, Mag, Pesticides, etc.

I had a old Fish tank pump so all I needed was a few air stones and I was in business. The biggest veggies on the planet are grown in optimal organic conditions that utilize symbiotic relationships that you cant get with synthetics.

Plants have adapted to DEPEND on these relationships in nature. Take that away, and you have to "synthesize" the real thing with synthetics. ;)

You dont seem to get that, like synthetics, organic is different from grower to grower. Just like there is a difference between Dyna Grow, Advanced Nutrients, and Miracle Grow.
The trick to Organic is having the optimal environment for a healthy soil food web to thrive. Is that harder than synthetics? I say no but that is subjective.

There is NO PROOF that one is better than the other!
However, if you want to grow monster plants on synthetics it will take more money, and lots of experience with your mediums and products. Growing Using "newer style" organics like , utilizing Mycorrhizea, Biofilm, and maintaining a optimal soil food web, is idoit proof once you get the general idea of ANAEROBIC vs AEROBIC. Organic is WAY more forgiving than traditional fertilizers.

I dont want to get in to mine is better... more that I don't want to see you bashing organic. If you dont think organic is as good cool. I am telling you that if done right it is.

The only reason I care is I dont want people to see your posts and be misled by BS BIAS articles.
Click to expand...

Oh crap Monsanto was responsible for Agent Orange!!!???
 
Capsicum said:
"Plants do not differentiate the nutrients they absorb resulting from hydroponic or organic nutrient solutions. For example, nitrogen is typically available as NO[sub]3[/sub]- or NH[sub]4[/sub]+. It does not matter to the plant whether it came from guano or bottled nutrient. "

http://www.simplyhyd...aste_better.htm

O by the way- Monsanto rules!!!!
Click to expand...

Bull Shit!
Who is http://www.simplyhydro.com
Find a link like that from a non bias source.
and what proof do they have?

Synthetic cost more.
Hydro is more work and more difficult and cost a lot more.



I think now you are trying to piss people off... Why Troll organic? what's in it for you?

And yes Monsanto is ruling our country. They are the reason it is cheaper to buy fast food than eat fresh.
 
Cayennemist said:
Bull Shit!
Who is http://www.simplyhydro.com
Find a link like that from a non bias source.
and what proof do they have?

Synthetic cost more.
Hydro is more work and more difficult and cost a lot more.

I think now you are trying to piss people off... Why Troll organic? what's in it for you?

And yes Monsanto is ruling our country. They are the reason it is cheaper to buy fast food than eat fresh.
Click to expand...

"I think now you are trying to piss people off... Why Troll organic? what's in it for you?"

Just too funny to hear these hippies thoughts....



2% of our food comes from organic crop production...
 
Capsicum said:
http://www.otoolesga...izer_basics.pdf




"I think now you are trying to piss people off... Why Troll organic? what's in it for you?"


Just too funny to hear these hippies thoughts....
Click to expand...
http://www.otoolesgardencenters.com ??? lol OK! Because they would know?

"Just too funny to hear these hippies thoughts?"... Really man? A statement like that is just a shot at your own credibility.



And by the way nutrient intake is a genetic trait that is slightly different from plant to plant. Some plants may like a little more N some a little more P and it can vary in types.

Even if you had the exact compounds that nature makes, you still don't have the delivery.
 
Cayennemist said:
Sorry readers for feeding the
avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png
Click to expand...


Attention Hippies:


Monsanto makes superior products.

If we went "organic" we could not keep up with food needs.

" Is that what you pea-brained anti-Monsanto 'tards want?
Be honest, you don't know what you want do you?"
 
Pepper-Guru said:
this debate is super easy to end...for all the new growers or the uninformed, the solution is simple....
Step 1. Take a look at organic glogs, then a gander at synthetic glogs...
Step 2. Make your decision...
Step 3. Drink a beer and enjoy
Click to expand...

I have to +1 on this, but then again it's not easy to convert people who use non organic to organic, why? well habit's!
Here, organic way are still on the rise, but it risen fast because farmer who use non organic felt that their yield is getting smaller by the year and are getting their money washed out in front of their eye. Fertile land become non fertile (chemical do this) So they moved to organic way, making compost, making bacterial/fungus starter, make vermicompost, etc and realized they cut the cost of what their doing by 35-40%. So it's a no brainer for me to chose organic ways, its confusing at first but there's google and thp as my book.

PS: I'm going to try Gary (windchicken) method, using bark, they show great result and lesser pest.
 
In nature soil is pretty much never uncovered. Rather than letting it rebuild and regenerate from season to season, modern agriculture commonly focuses on adding more and more chemicals into soil that is continually eroding and losing its nutrients. Aside from producing food that is less healthy, agriculture that depends on chemicals and artificial fertilizers produces a growing environment that is less and less healthy as time moves along. I want to call adding more and more chemicals into the mix a "lazy" solution, but that would be incorrect because it is actually far more work in the long run.
 
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