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organic Organics 101

This is a great conversation. I have one small garden bed and everything else is planted in containers. I've been adding store bought compost and manure to my garden a few weeks before plant out. In the fall I till the mulch cover in and then recover with leaves. I think I'm on the right track. This year I also amended with some organic fertilizer (tomato tone, local version), bone meal and blood meal. Could I take the soil from garden bed and use that for my containers and "let it ride" for the season like I do in my garden? Of course I would add some perlite to help with drainage....There is an area next to my garden that doesn't get much light that I could save up for container soil. 
 
This discussion has me considering composting at home again. The main reason I don't do it now is because I can acquire it for so cheap and I don't really need much of it. I have a worm bin and use the vermicompost mostly to top dress my containers and make tea with. Is composting really as easy as throwing material in a covered bin and mixing it up every couple weeks?
 
ColdSmoke said:
This is a great conversation. I have one small garden bed and everything else is planted in containers. I've been adding store bought compost and manure to my garden a few weeks before plant out. In the fall I till the mulch cover in and then recover with leaves. I think I'm on the right track. This year I also amended with some organic fertilizer (tomato tone, local version), bone meal and blood meal. Could I take the soil from garden bed and use that for my containers and "let it ride" for the season like I do in my garden? Of course I would add some perlite to help with drainage....There is an area next to my garden that doesn't get much light that I could save up for container soil. 
 
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As long as the soil is aerated well enough and the amendments of those meals and manure are composted enough then you should be good. Most of us who mix our own soils and add alfalfa, and other amendments mix the soil up and moisten it to about the consistency of a damp sponge and then let it sit for 4 weeks minimum for the nutrients to cycle. If you don't let them cycle there is a chance of burning the plant from too hot of a mix. Does that make sense?

This discussion has me considering composting at home again. The main reason I don't do it now is because I can acquire it for so cheap and I don't really need much of it. I have a worm bin and use the vermicompost mostly to top dress my containers and make tea with. Is composting really as easy as throwing material in a covered bin and mixing it up every couple weeks?
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Pretty much it's that easy, yes.
Screening it is a little work but it's not bad. You dont really even have to screen it but I prefer to so that it makes it easier to plant seedlings in if needed.
 
ColdSmoke said:
Could I take the soil from garden bed and use that for my containers and "let it ride" for the season like I do in my garden? 
 
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     It would depend on the type of soil you are working with. As far as texture goes, loamy or clay soils tend to turn into cement when they dry out. Even with the addition of perlite, when your containers get dry, they will be a lot harder to rewet than a coir or peat-based soil. Combine this trait with their tendency to shrink away from the sides of the container when they dry, and you might end up with most of the water you add just running around off the root ball and out the bottom. Some of your native soil would probably make a good additive to your container soil, just cut it with lots of porous organic material (and perlite).
     Nutrient wise, you have to consider that (unless you're planning on filling a HUGE container), in-ground plants have access to much more soil volume than container plants. Depending on the size of the size of the container and the plant, you may end up exhausting the soil at some point.
 
ColdSmoke said:
 
 
 Is composting really as easy as throwing material in a covered bin and mixing it up every couple weeks?
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     Even easier!  ;)  I don't even cover my pile. But yeah, just try to add parent material in the proper proportions and maintain a volume that will allow it to heat (if you want hot compost) and it will do its thing. 
 
I use one of these Smith & Hawken compost bins. I like it and am looking for another one.

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I'm considering starting a compost bin on my property but I've seen a lot of varying opinions about "the best" type to have.  My space is relatively limited, let's call it 4'x4' and I can't have anything too odoriferous or unsightly or I'll trigger the HOA in to action.
 
KingLeerUK said:
I'm considering starting a compost bin on my property but I've seen a lot of varying opinions about "the best" type to have.  My space is relatively limited, let's call it 4'x4' and I can't have anything too odoriferous or unsightly or I'll trigger the HOA in to action.
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The one I posted the photo of above would fit the bill. It's only about 3' square and a little taller than 3'.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
I use one of these Smith & Hawken compost bins. I like it and am looking for another one.

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I like the functionality of that one. I can't seem to find one locally though...
 
ColdSmoke said:
 
I like the functionality of that one. I can't seem to find one locally though...
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I think they stopped making them but I see them on Craigslist here. Have you checked there? Some people make a compost bin out of wood pallets as well. It all depends on what you want. I like mine because it keeps critters out with the lid on it.
 
KingLeerUK said:
I'm considering starting a compost bin on my property but I've seen a lot of varying opinions about "the best" type to have.  My space is relatively limited, let's call it 4'x4' and I can't have anything too odoriferous or unsightly or I'll trigger the HOA in to action.
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I really enjoy the ease of my tumble composer.  It sacrifices volume, but all you need to do is pull down on the handle to give it a spin to mix up and aerate the compost.
 
Something I have not seen mentioned yet. You can get a lot of free coffee grounds at any Starbucks just for the asking. The only drawback is an occasional coffee filter in them and the urge for a cup of Joe from the smell as you are spreading them out or adding them to the bin.
 
WichitaChief said:
Something I have not seen mentioned yet. You can get a lot of free coffee grounds at any Starbucks just for the asking. The only drawback is an occasional coffee filter in them and the urge for a cup of Joe from the smell as you are spreading them out or adding them to the bin.
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Yep!  But dont worry the filter wont hurt anything, its just like having leaves in your grass clippings (carbon and nitrogen).
 
For anyone that doesnt know,  just walk into a starbucks and say "do you have any used coffee grounds"; they will know what you are asking for and bring you what they have (if someone hasnt already recently come in and claimed what they have)
 
Hybrid Mode 01 said:
 
     Organic gardening is the best of both worlds!  ;)
     Who says synthetic fertilizing is faster? When I put my plants in the ground, they were fed immediately and they will continue to have everything they need even while I'm at work or drinking a beer. Sure it takes a little effort to make good soil, but after that it's just minimal maintenance from my end. I let my soil feed my plants on its schedule.
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Anecdotal, but I have noticed that when I used regular liquid ferts that my plants grew faster. From what I understand from the literature in Japan, plants do indeed grow faster with regular fertilizers, but there are downsides such as tougher skins and weak flavors. Seems the literature here suggests that 100% organic or even partially organic grown produce have thinner skins and better flavors.
 
I do agree organic has minimal maintenance, as far as raising the plants. But that regained time, since I am doing my best to be pesticide free, ends up being used for dealing with pests. Although my main garden bed pretty much takes care of itself, my cucumber and kale are both dealing with aphids (less of an issue) and caterpillars (bigger issue), so I find myself out in the morning and late at night picking away at caterpillars. I do spray with neem though. There are just too many for it to be really truly effective though.
 
Last night I cut in some kale and thinking that I had gotten them all off, but while washing it up I found tons more hidden along little crevices in the leaves etc. Bastards!
 
filmost said:
 
Anecdotal, but I have noticed that when I used regular liquid ferts that my plants grew faster. From what I understand from the literature in Japan, plants do indeed grow faster with regular fertilizers, but there are downsides such as tougher skins and weak flavors. Seems the literature here suggests that 100% organic or even partially organic grown produce have thinner skins and better flavors.
 
I do agree organic has minimal maintenance, as far as raising the plants. But that regained time, since I am doing my best to be pesticide free, ends up being used for dealing with pests. Although my main garden bed pretty much takes care of itself, my cucumber and kale are both dealing with aphids (less of an issue) and caterpillars (bigger issue), so I find myself out in the morning and late at night picking away at caterpillars. I do spray with neem though. There are just too many for it to be really truly effective though.
 
Last night I cut in some kale and thinking that I had gotten them all off, but while washing it up I found tons more hidden along little crevices in the leaves etc. Bastards!
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Please try the BT (bacillus thuringiensis) based treatements.  I use the one by Safer (brand name).
I have found that it kills baby caterpillars within 24 hours.  They just DIE!  If you have larger caterpillars I know it kills them too, but I dont know how many days it takes.
 
note:  this is considered an organic pesticide because it is simply a natural bacteria already present in the ecosystem.
 
PS
Safer (brand)  also makes an insecticidal soap (also organic) to spray on aphids.
 
pepper_rancher said:
 
Please try the BT (bacillus thuringiensis) based treatements.  I use the one by Safer (brand name).
I have found that it kills baby caterpillars within 24 hours.  They just DIE!  If you have larger caterpillars I know it kills them too, but I dont know how many days it takes.
 
note:  this is considered an organic pesticide because it is simply a natural bacteria already present in the ecosystem.
 
PS
Safer (brand)  also makes an insecticidal soap (also organic) to spray on aphids.
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I have some that I brought back to Japan with me, but I only use it in the worst cases. It's actually not sold at all in Japan (call me a bad guy if you want, but meh)
 
pepper_rancher said:
 
I really enjoy the ease of my tumble composer.  It sacrifices volume, but all you need to do is pull down on the handle to give it a spin to mix up and aerate the compost.
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I just pulled the trigger on a Mantis compost Tumbler. Looks nice enough for my wife not complain about. No way she would go for a handmade composter or something that stinks up the yard. 
 
Our produce is all organic, but the program we've been developing doesn't work unless you have land and critters.  Best example is chicken and ducks for pest control.  So far, every breed of chicken has been worth the few lower branch losses for how many bugs they consume.  Peking ducks are great for the same purpose but other breeds eat the garden itself.  Goats help clear the left overs and keep the off season weeds down.

We don't do much with composting because most table scraps go to the pig.  We do age barn scrapings (poop, hay, straw) for about a year in a pile, but not sure you would call that compost.  Its great for getting an early start because it will warm a grow box as it decomposes.

If I had to pick one thing to advise, it would be mulch, mulch,and mulch some more.  Our joke about organic farming is if someone says they are organic, ask to see the weeds.
 
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