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media Peat vs coco fiber. What one study shows

Blister said:
Sure. If you amend the soil (add in ph buffers/adjusters when mixing) you won't have to deal with ph so it's irrelevant... but, uh, by adding ph buffers to your mix means you had to deal with it so it's not really irrelevant is it?

Dolomitic Lime is also not recommended as a ph buffer for coco. Given the nature of coco and how it locks up specific nutrients while releasing others, the addition of large amounts of calcium and magnesium would throw the nutrient balance way out of whack and lock out essential nutrients. Doing so produces the results you see in the report. Basically it all comes down to you needing to PH your water rather than attempt to balance the PH in your grow medium like you do with soil. Again you can't treat coco like soil and expect the same results. It has it's own quirks that you need to deal with.

Neil
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That's why peat moss is better and the only thing I use. :)
 
Blister said:
I used to think that until I tried coco.
Neil
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If it needs to be pH adjusted it's too much work. Make a water only soil and you have no worries nutritionally. All you have to do is dechlorinate the water and that's it. :)
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
If it needs to be pH adjusted it's too much work. Make a water only soil and you have no worries nutritionally. All you have to do is dechlorinate the water and that's it. :)
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You boys have too many worries, i have been blessed with very good soft water and no chlorine either. :arrow: :silenced:
 
But either way. Its so easy to grow chilis in coco, just add some hydroponic fertilizer in every watering and thats it. :woohoo:
 
jojo said:
I kinda regret buying my bricks on bricks of bricks of coco now.
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Should be no problem. Mix it in 50/50 with other potting soils or ingredients; Peat, bark fines, forest humus, with extra perlite, and i bet it will turn out well.
 
The coco bricks ought to store for a while so you may have some left for the following season.
 
Chilidude said:
You boys have too many worries, i have been blessed with very good soft water and no chlorine either. :arrow: :silenced:
 
But either way. Its so easy to grow chilis in coco, just add some hydroponic fertilizer in every watering and thats it. :woohoo:
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I'm an organic gardener so that's not for me. ;)
 
JoynersHotPeppers said:
Yes there are, I use them :)
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Which ones are you using? I've been contemplating trying some organic nutes and have only looked at Botannicare Pure Blend Pro. Have you noticed any difference in performance between organic and chemical hydro nutes?

Neil
 
Blister said:
Which ones are you using? I've been contemplating trying some organic nutes and have only looked at Botannicare Pure Blend Pro. Have you noticed any difference in performance between organic and chemical hydro nutes?

Neil
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I have heard great things about that product but have read almost as many terrible things about some of their other products.  As for what I am using currently, a big bag of nothing. Potting everything up due to a terrible grow thus far based on cold factors most certainly. I'll poke around and see if I can find what product I used last season, still need to start introducing nutrients this season.
 
Well that was an interesting read. I still like the idea of coir based on it's physical properties, but I had no idea about the nutrients or the salinity issue.  I guess I should have been fertilizing straight out of the gate instead of relying on only water.
 
Blister, do you have to use hydro nutes with coir, or can you still use the typical liquid organic nutes?
 
Trippa said:
As nice as it is to use sphagnum .. Its pretty rough on old mother earth ... Mores the pity. Hence coco as a soil amendment is a good compromise for the organic soil grower who has a more worldwide thinking conscience in trying to help the environment in the longrunhttp://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Horticultural%20%20peat.pdf
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I would have to look into it more but I remember one member on this forum saying that our peat bogs are not in trouble as some say. I can't say as I am not sure at this point.
 
filmost said:
Well that was an interesting read. I still like the idea of coir based on it's physical properties, but I had no idea about the nutrients or the salinity issue.  I guess I should have been fertilizing straight out of the gate instead of relying on only water.
 
Blister, do you have to use hydro nutes with coir, or can you still use the typical liquid organic nutes?
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I can't say how effective typical liquid organic nutrients would be. I've never tried them. When I first tried coco I was using soil fertilizer and really had no luck. The plant grew, but it never produced anything. After having done my research it really seems to be better to use a quality hydro nutrient system. It's even better if you have access to nutrients specifically designed for coco.

Neil
 
I use peat based mixes but last season I did some experiments with coco. The roots in coco were pure white and like ropes!!! Buy a quality coco(not pet shop garbage) and it's no contest. Coco is way more hands on,and has calcium/magnesium issues though. I would never use it for my outdoor container gardening,I don't have the time to dedicate. I suggest mixing the two,it works well.

Proud Marine Dad said:
I'm an organic gardener so that's not for me. ;)
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Seabird, bat guano and lime. Foliar feed with your fish,kelp and fulvic acid.

I'm not a hippy or organic gardener,but I only use organic nutrients and amend my garden with manure and mulched leaves.
 
I am sticking with peat as coco is too expensive and my organic, water only soil components are already getting expensive. At least next year it will cost less as the same soil can be used year after year with just slight additions to the amendments
Peat also has a better CEC than coir. ;)
 
Trippa said:
As nice as it is to use sphagnum .. Its pretty rough on old mother earth ... Mores the pity. Hence coco as a soil amendment is a good compromise for the organic soil grower who has a more worldwide thinking conscience in trying to help the environment in the longrunhttp://puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/Myths/Horticultural%20%20peat.pdf
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"The anti-peat movement began in Europe where, because of population density, limited peat deposits, and centuries-long use of the resource, they are at the point where finding substitutes for peat makes sense. But the same is not the case in North America. Of the peat lands in North America, only 0.02 percent (2/100 of 1 percent) are being used for peat harvesting. On this continent peat is forming some five to ten times faster than the rate at which we are using it. And even if we don't include bogs located so far north that their use would never be economic, peat is still a resource that is forming much faster than we are using it. To my mind that is the definition of a renewable resource.

Obviously, it behooves us to make sure that every natural resource is managed sustainably and that unique areas are protected. My investigations into the peat moss industry don't give me cause to worry. Just out of curiosity, though, I have explored locally available peat alternatives. The crumbly insides of well-rotted maple and birch tree trunks on the forest floor gave reliable results in potting mixtures.

For warmer climates kenaf has shown promise. The kenaf plant, which can grow up to 15 feet tall in four months, is cut and dried in the field. Its fiber is valuable for papermaking, and the remaining stem cores, both composted and uncomposted, have been used as a growing medium. In some trials a kenaf substrate proved more successful than peat moss.

Someday we may need to find a substitute for peat moss, but I do not believe that day is here. In fact, I do not believe it ever needs to arrive. But if we do need a substitute, some of the present contenders, like coir fiber imported, at great expense and energy, from faraway South Pacific islands, which need that organic matter to maintain their own soil fertility, make very little sense. If I am going to react against using peat to improve agricultural soils, I want to do it with all the facts at hand, both as to whether the problem actually exists and as to whether the supposed solution is logical and environmentally appropriate." -Eliot Coleman -- The New Organic Grower pg 118.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
"The anti-peat movement began in Europe where, because of population density, limited peat deposits, and centuries-long use of the resource, they are at the point where finding substitutes for peat makes sense. But the same is not the case in North America. Of the peat lands in North America, only 0.02 percent (2/100 of 1 percent) are being used for peat harvesting. On this continent peat is forming some five to ten times faster than the rate at which we are using it. And even if we don't include bogs located so far north that their use would never be economic, peat is still a resource that is forming much faster than we are using it. To my mind that is the definition of a renewable resource.

Obviously, it behooves us to make sure that every natural resource is managed sustainably and that unique areas are protected. My investigations into the peat moss industry don't give me cause to worry. Just out of curiosity, though, I have explored locally available peat alternatives. The crumbly insides of well-rotted maple and birch tree trunks on the forest floor gave reliable results in potting mixtures.

For warmer climates kenaf has shown promise. The kenaf plant, which can grow up to 15 feet tall in four months, is cut and dried in the field. Its fiber is valuable for papermaking, and the remaining stem cores, both composted and uncomposted, have been used as a growing medium. In some trials a kenaf substrate proved more successful than peat moss.

Someday we may need to find a substitute for peat moss, but I do not believe that day is here. In fact, I do not believe it ever needs to arrive. But if we do need a substitute, some of the present contenders, like coir fiber imported, at great expense and energy, from faraway South Pacific islands, which need that organic matter to maintain their own soil fertility, make very little sense. If I am going to react against using peat to improve agricultural soils, I want to do it with all the facts at hand, both as to whether the problem actually exists and as to whether the supposed solution is logical and environmentally appropriate." -Eliot Coleman -- The New Organic Grower pg 118.
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Yes ... I said worldwide thinking not USA centric thinking ... The European example is the perfect example of nonrenewable resources over time ... Which ever way you spin it its digging into wetlands and the peat you are using takes hundreds of years to form (and the ecology takes years to bounce back)
Also Coco coir is simply a by-product of the coconut industry and is most often of Asian origin... Not south pacific islands. It would never add to the fertility of the south pacific island fertility naturally it would simply add salinity.
Each to their own I was simply adding that some people may prefer coco coir because of bigger concerns to them personally ... I know that many areas of peat are being depleted worldwide ... And if they go how long will the North American peat last then??
 
Trippa said:
Each to their own I was simply adding that some people may prefer coco coir because of bigger concerns to them personally ... I know that many areas of peat are being depleted worldwide ... And if they go how long will the North American peat last then??
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Well since we are currently using .02% I think it would last a very long time. Just keep it here and don't sell it to the Europeans. :rofl:
One could also argue on other negatives of coir being harvested using child labor as well but that's another topic altogether.
 
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