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Plant Hormones, Rocks, and Hard Places

I've been reading and researching on plant hormones. There was an inordinate amount of the particulate carbon byproduct of combustion being forcibly cast out from puckered posterior orifices for me to be comfortable continuing the discussion started in "First Pepper of the 2008 Season..."

First, I may be incorrectly calling them plant hormones at all. Some of the references I read said a more correct name would be plant growth regulators rather than plant hormones. Second is the assumption that we understand enough about plant physiology to understand and/or predict the effect of all or most phyto-compounds on our bodies. From the amount of research being done I would say there's a whole honkin lot we don't know. We already know that some of them have a powerful effect on our bodies. Phyto-estrogens, which, despite the name, are flavoinoids, are an excellent example. A few years back, I had some problems with uterine fibroid tumors. I wanted very much to avoid a hysterectomy and the first thing I was told was to avoid all soy and soy products. I bet most of you have an herbal supplement or two in your medicine cabinets, too.

So, I looked and looked for any work being done on auxin, since it’s the plant growth regulator seems to be the one most used by gardeners. I couldn’t find a single paper that tested its safety, only one that used indole acetic acid and follicle stimulating hormone in sheep ovary tissue culture to stimulate normal follicle development. Yeah, that was a lively read. I searched the OMRI (sit down, I’m not talking about you) web site, and didn’t find a single product that listed auxin. Botaincare has a couple of products listed, but not the ones that have auxin in them. Oddly enough, there was a whole subsection of products with gibberellic acid.

There were lots of sites that warned auxin in high concentrations is what makes a lot of herbicides work, and that auxin was the herbicide in Agent Orange.

So, I’m back to the fact that we don’t know if giving plants plant growth regulators is safe. If the research has been done, I couldn’t find it. And no, we can’t just assume it is because it seems logical. Remember they gave women synthetic hormones at menopause for years because it seemed to make sense that the estrogen would ameliorate hot flashes and the like, plus give some protection against heart attacks and cancer. Boy howdy is *that* a mess.

Now, as to the more immediate effects, auxin is why AJ’s plants are tall and straight. Auxin controls apical dominance and suppression of the lateral buds. Compare his 2 foot tall nagas with some of the equally healthy but bushy plants that some of the others have produced.

This is not, btw, a criticism, but an observation. I know others of you use products with plant growth regulators in them, but I read up on the Botanicare he’s using, and he has posted such lovely pictures. And he’ll forgive me for picking on him. *blows AJ a kiss* And I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with or unhealthy about AJ's plants, just that they clearly show the effects of auxin supplementation.

I’m not sure if giving them auxin will affect the amount and quality of the peppers produced. Auxin does play some part in initiating bud formation, but it’s a minor role and not as clear cut as apical dominance. It can delay flower senescence, but I’m not clear if delaying senescence would delay fruiting. Senescence is defined literally as the growth phase from full maturity to death of a plant or plant part.

Now, all this research turned up an interesting tidbit that might explain why my Nagas aren’t growing. I wish I could find the blasted article again, but it suggested that some of the beneficial mycorrhizae being used in horticulture inhibit auxin production. Auxin stimulates the production of secondary roots and, unlike stems, inhibits apical dominance in roots. Frustrated by my inability to get my hands on anything like Pro-Mix, I got something called Soluble Root Growth Enhancer that contains beneficial endo and ecto mycorrhizae. I think, and once again I can’t find the blasted article; but, forcibly casting out particulate carbon byproduct of combustion from my puckered posterior orifice, I think maybe my nagas might actually be auxin deficient. I added some Superthrive to the water of a couple of them last week and almost immediately have gotten a growth bump. And adding the Soluble Root Growth Enhancer is really the only thing I’ve done that’s significantly different.

So, I seem to have put myself right smack dab between a rock and a hard place.
 
Wow, you really did go all out for post 3000 (congrats btw). Really great researching on your part and as always, very insightful.

To touch on something you posted, yes, soy is EXTREMELY bad for the human body and should be avoided at all costs (unless it has been fermented like soy sauce then it's fine).
 
imaguitargod said:
Wow, you really did go all out for post 3000 (congrats btw). Really great researching on your part and as always, very insightful.

Why, thank you.

To touch on something you posted, yes, soy is EXTREMELY bad for the human body and should be avoided at all costs (unless it has been fermented like soy sauce then it's fine).

Well, no, it's not bad in all cases. Soy products can be very healthy. It's just when you have a 20 by 25 centimeter, 1000 gram fibroid hanging off the outside of your uterus, it's not recommended.
 
habman said:
heu? didn't understand anything but ...err yeah... your plants look great :)



No, no, no, my Nagas *don't* look great. That's the problem. My Nagas suck, they suck like some vast sucky thing that sucks. A lot.


Not only do I think they're auxin deficient, they got slapped around by Darth Aphid until Ladybug Skywalker showed them the futility of the Munchie Side.
 
Love the info from your research and your creative discriptive skills.

Must remember this somehow: "particulate carbon byproduct of combustion being forcibly cast out from puckered posterior orifices"

Hope your nagas enjoy their special treatments and you get the results your looking for.
 
Pam said:
Soy products can be very healthy.
Nope, they are just the opposite. They cause the body to produce extra amounts of estrogen, the FDA has only approved soy in use for glue, and it perminitly damagaes the bodies ability to uptake nutrients. That's why alot of vegitariens that use soy as their main sorce of protien look like cancer patients. Stay far away from soy (and canola...aka rape seed).
 
imaguitargod said:
Nope, they are just the opposite. They cause the body to produce extra amounts of estrogen, the FDA has only approved soy in use for glue, and it perminitly damagaes the bodies ability to uptake nutrients. That's why alot of vegitariens that use soy as their main sorce of protien look like cancer patients. Stay far away from soy (and canola...aka rape seed).


That's incorrect, both soy and canola are part of a healthy diet, products containing soy have FDA approval to use heart healthy claims, and it does not damage the body's ability to take up nutrients. You've been listening to propaganda from your Alien Overlords instead of doing some of your own research. Honestly, the first anti-soy screed page I found was selling an Advanced Bio-Photon Analyzer with FREE Vortex Imprinting Cable, a water resonator, and Hyper-Dimensional, Golden Ratio, Vortex Antennas.

The *only* reason I had to avoid soy was that some uterine fibroids shrink after menopause, and it is believed that lowing estrogen can have the same effect. There are lots of health benefits to including soy in a balanced diet.
 
***runs out of room screamin "my peppers are poison, my peppers are poison"***

J/K....great information Pam...simply great...I am too trustihng a soul I suppose, the guy that recommended the botanicare products did growth research on peppers for botanicare...he now owns the hydro shop I frequent...very knowledgable in the plant world and he talks the talk...knows a lot about peppers but is always learning something different from me I have learned here on THP...

I don't know about the Auxin and stuff but what ever combination of stuff I am using seems to be stimulating growth very good... :lol: I have started using another Botanicare product called liquid karma...why....it sounded cool and I remember the 60's....it is suppose to give the flowering/fruiting phase a jump start...


Linda just said.."suppers ready"...later all
 
Pam said:
That's incorrect, both soy and canola are part of a healthy diet, products containing soy have FDA approval to use heart healthy claims, and it does not damage the body's ability to take up nutrients. You've been listening to propaganda from your Alien Overlords instead of doing some of your own research. Honestly, the first anti-soy screed page I found was selling an Advanced Bio-Photon Analyzer with FREE Vortex Imprinting Cable, a water resonator, and Hyper-Dimensional, Golden Ratio, Vortex Antennas.

The *only* reason I had to avoid soy was that some uterine fibroids shrink after menopause, and it is believed that lowing estrogen can have the same effect. There are lots of health benefits to including soy in a balanced diet.
While the FDA thing might have changed recently, the research I've done is pritty solid. There's alot of missinformation out there on all sorts of things but the proof is solidly in place about both soy and canola (which causes organs to become inlarged, even animals stay away from rape seed from what I understand). The proof's in the pudding....mmm...pudding...just look at the soy eating vegans, thay are suffering from nutrian deficency. There's no doubt.

Sorry for going off subject, be that's what we always do here. :)
 
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
"There were lots of sites that warned auxin in high concentrations is what makes a lot of herbicides work, and that auxin was the herbicide in Agent Orange".

WOW...Pam, that was some great information, thanks for taking the time to post your research. It took me awhile to read it though ( had to read it twice to fully understand....LOL).
 
AlabamaJack said:
***runs out of room screamin "my peppers are poison, my peppers are poison"***

Honestly AJ, I don't mean to sound critical at all. There's too much I don't know. Most of the information talked about the effects of individual plant growth regulators, and not about the system of the plant as a whole. The botonist over in biology I usually corner with these kind of questions went and retired on me.

I'll repeat myself here, there is really too much I don't know for me to form a solid opinion on whether or not using fertilizers that contain auxin is harmful or helpful. Your plants are gorgeous, but they do go pretty much straight up. Whether or not that's a bad thing or a good is wide open to interpretation or personal preference.
 
Is it soley your Nagas that you feel are Auxin deficient and do you think it is because of the growing medium or do you feel it is a characteristic trait of the species? My Nagas have done absolutly horrendus but then again I am not having much luck at all with my peppers my tomatoes on the other hand are growing swimmingly....
 
LUCKYDOG said:
Is it soley your Nagas that you feel are Auxin deficient and do you think it is because of the growing medium or do you feel it is a characteristic trait of the species? My Nagas have done absolutly horrendus but then again I am not having much luck at all with my peppers my tomatoes on the other hand are growing swimmingly....


I got something called Soluble Root Growth Enhancer that contains beneficial endo and ecto mycorrhizae, and I used it when I planted the Nagas. I didn't use it on my later peppers because I was already concerned about my Nagas. One of the articles I read mentioned a beneficial fungus that inhibits auxin. It didn't say how much, or if the inhibition was in the roots, or what the effect was on the plant. I'm doing a lot swag-ing here, but I did get a bounce of growth after I added some Superthrive to the water of a couple of the Nagas.
 
Didn't take your post as criticism...

I take it as concern about what the stuff I am putting on my peppers will do to me and those who eat them....I am surprised you can't find much information on Auxin since superthrive has been sold since the 40s...I didn't know Auxin was an active ingredient in Agent Orange but do know Agent Orange was nasty...have you ever known anyone that came in contact with it in "Nam"...

Anyway, another reason my plants are tall is the parental naga was about 4 feet tall at maturity (best to my recollection)...so it could be that with me adding the "grow stuff" to them they are going to be really tall...but then again, look at BBs Nagas...they are 7 feet tall....dangit BB...

Here is my new additive I am starting to use also....

Liquid Karma

Liquid Karma contains a full complement of metabolically active organic compounds not found in regular plant foods or supplements. These unique compounds are absorbed immediately and act as regulatory signals, activators or catalysts to produce synchronized and accelerated growth under all conditions. Liquid Karma functions as a growth engine because its high metabolic activity produces a large amount of energy which is immediately transformed to growth. Will improve the taste and smell of plants, too! Mix 1/2 - 1 oz. per gallon of water.


I have been inhibiting my fertilizers effectiveness...adding the peroxide to the water that has fertilize in it is a no no...does something to the compounds that makes it not work at 100%....I am past the mold/mildew stage now and won't use peroxide any more...just found this out reading the botanicare information over the weekend...hmmmmm...if my plants are doing this well with the fertilize not being 100% effective wonder what they would have done without the peroxide...

I noticed this morning just before I left for work the nagas have popped new flower buds...not just one or two but a lot of small buds forming....I started the Liquid Karma routine last Thursday and have only fed them one time...either they are happy again in my grow box with constant temperatures and have started budding again or the Liquid Karma is doing what it is supposed to do...
 
I figure it's as good a post as any to come out of lurking. First off hey!

The thing about the beneficial fungus is not so much that they inhibit auxin production, but that some of them produce cytokinin in large quantities so you their effect somewhat overpowers that of the natural auxins.

And yes auxins we're the herbicide in Agent Orange, particularly 2,4-D but not the cause of the problem. 2,4-D is still available the buy I think. One of the by-product of the process if heated higher than usual turned to dioxine,which is very bad.
 
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