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chinense Scotch bonnet shape evidence enough?

POTAWIE said:
Here's a good article that I often post links to about Jamaican Scotch bonnets
http://www.fiery-foods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:the-scotch-bonnet-peppers-of-jamaica&catid=76:caribbean&Itemid=150

"Unfortunately, Jamaica is unable to meet the demand for this highly sought after commodity. Other Caribbean islands have tried to cash in on this demand by exporting the peppers, but importers in the USA who know the product say the quality is inferior to the true Jamaican Scotch bonnet.

The Jamaican government is currently working with agronomists at the Scientific Research Council and the Ministry of Agriculture to save the Scotch pepper which is under threat from the use of inferior seeds, the use of the name Jamaican Scotch bonnet to describe peppers that are not real Scotch bonnet, inferior quality products and inability to meet demand. In addition, the fumigation that is required for entry into the United States results in quicker spoilage.

The Ministry of Agriculture, Rural Agricultural Development Association and the Scientific Research Council are all working to ensure that the Scotch bonnet pepper industry survives. One of the strategies being developed is the sale and distribution of top-quality Jamaican Scotch bonnet seeds to farmers."
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I'm not sure if this is the publication noted above but if you read through the "Characteristics" on pg. 32 and look at the pix on pg. 33 I would think this is what the Ministry of agriculture, Jamaica considers a Scotch Bonnet > ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/005/AD109E/AD109E00.pdf
 
talas said:
As I.G says there so many shapes and sizes and strains it goes on and on
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 there so many shapes and sizes and strains it goes on and on.. You left off color, click here.>  https://plus.google.com/communities/115327395557843932467/stream/e1366dbe-ef7b-4211-b946-4e6e7c9f16f7

And yes, I know this post is 8 years old & talas hasn't been online since 12/13.
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
 
I'm not sure if this is the publication noted above but if you read through the "Characteristics" on pg. 32 and look at the pix on pg. 33 I would think this is what the Ministry of agriculture, Jamaica considers a Scotch Bonnet > ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/005/AD109E/AD109E00.pdf
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Surprised they don't mention colour at all... still, a cool l'il description from what i'd consider to be an authoritative source.
 
Well I look in my garden and I have a lot of "Reject Quality" pods according to that read .... but hey they still taste good ... Thanks NECM for the article very interesting ... hopefully I will have a few more variety pictures soon
 
I think taste is the #1 factor, but I think half the art of cultivating these things is trying to get the whole thing nailed: flavor, colour, shape, the whole nine yards.  But, for me, I'll be happy just to produce some tasty chiles.   :drooling:
 
Bicycle808 said:
Surprised they don't mention colour at all... still, a cool l'il description from what i'd consider to be an authoritative source.
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While there is very little mention of color all pix are of green/yellow pods and pg. 31 reports: "must be harvested when they are a full green colour, or with a blush of yellow/orange"
 
Trident chilli said:
Well I look in my garden and I have a lot of "Reject Quality" pods according to that read .... but hey they still taste good ... Thanks NECM for the article very interesting ... hopefully I will have a few more variety pictures soon
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As already noted, there have been many plants/pods called Scotch Bonnet and this means yours are not necessarily MOA Jamaican Scotch Bonnets. This pepper is grown all over the Caribbean and as we all know anyone can call any pepper whatever they want so you probably received seeds from someone who believed these were Scotch Bonnets. I noted your description is Beth Boyd SB and Beth often pulled seeds from peppers at her local market in TX. Her personal collection had 14 of various years, descriptions and colors so it is difficult to figure which one you have.

NECM
 
Sorry I didn't explain myself properly ... yes I have MoA Jamaican Yellow and Red and more than happy with their shape it's the other forty odd SB varieties that I am growing that don't conform to what is written. I take on board what I have described as "Beth Boyd" this variety was sent to me from the States and seed exchange is done on trust ... If anyone else is growing her SB I would love to see a photograph

Kind forum members have helped me over the past seasons source the next season's bonnet's and I have besides this season's Foodarama Red always had true seed
 
So I looked at the P. Dreadie Select thread and noted an interesting pic. I always find it amazing when one plant has two different phenotype growing on it but that one has three distinct phenos, I noted the non-waist in white, semi-waisted ones in black and the fully-waisted in red, see below. To me this indicates a crossed heritage and seeds from any of these pods can produce any of the shapes on the plant. So now I start the dead horse beating, unless you have a fully grown out cross you will have variances in pod shape and page 2 of this treatise shows how selecting 128 seeds of each generation (FX grow out.) will grow what % of variation, http://kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes.html. So basically you need to take seeds from the F1 pods with the phenotype you want and grow a number of those seeds, the larger # the better I might add, and select the preferred pods from those, etc. - etc. - etc. until F8 or better to produce a consistent pheno you're looking for. OK, let's add an important aspect to this grow out, segregation, because you don't want to to add a cross to this pheno, do you?. OK, I put away the horse beating stick and get back to one of my earlier posts, that someone got seeds or plants that were labeled as "Scotch Bonnets" and they grow them under that premise.

Scotch%20Bonnet_1_zps6mpkp2ib.jpg

A brief sidebar, I'm occasionally told my style of posting is condescending or grating but that is never my intent, I just feel so many growers would never be posting inquiries to the Pepper I.D. Forum, http://thehotpepper.com/forum/120-pepper-id/, if a little common sense was used in sending/receiving seeds.



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I don't find your style of posting condescending and I understand entirely your point of view .. I just want to show that there are many different shaped bonnet varieties ... you mention the P. Dreadie so you will have read that I wrote to Erin as I believed years ago that I was growing his select shaped pod. Clearly I wasn't and he explained that .. so we have both standard and select pods from original seed base. I have two plants producing many pods but only 5% I would classify as a "select" pod like this



Personally I don't think that any of the pods you have ringed on the above photograph look like mine but that is just my opinion ... clearly growing conditions play a major part and I in the UK cannot compete with your heat and humidity ... you extensively grow in the dirt while we raise our pods in greenhouses. What is refreshing for me is to see bonnet seed I have sent to the states ( Justin jcw10tc) grow out into bigger and better pods which in turn enhances my seed stock
 
Great thread here glad it was revived thanks for your post John an northeast chileman .
I have sengals they been putting out off phenos all year the majority have looked close to Johns Saraga
As John has said they still taste great but my friend while he liked them he liked the red moa's I had last year better.
 
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Believe it or not I grew these from pods I selected out of a Krogers Supermarket (Central Ohio) grocery chain.  In the winter of 2015 there was an Orange Hab shortage at the surrounding Krogers, many of the bins went routinely empty.  When the Orange Habs started to come in I noticed what looked like Scotch Bonnets mixed in with the Orange Habs, it appears the suppliers were just throwing in whatever they could to make up for the shortage.  Long story short I grabbed a few and saved seeds and grew them out this year.  Needless to say I am very happy with these! 
 
cheers
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
I would have to say those match the publications description, the classic Scotch Bonnet shape – three to four lobes and the characteristic cup and saucer shape, so you stumbled over a really good find, (MOA) Scotch Bonnet.> http://pepperlover.com/pepper-seeds/heal-leve/hot-very-hot/moa-scotch-bonnet,-detail
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Thanks for link and yes I realize I was very fortunate!  I have traded several times trying to get the MOA's but when I grew them out it was not an MOA or it was crossed.  Who knew I would find the pepper I wanted by mistake mixed in with Orange habs at a Supermarket!  lol
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
I've driven "around" Columbus a number of times (71 - 270 - 70, and of course reversed on the way home) on my way to Open Fields which is a bit south of Indy, ever heard of it?
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I have never heard of Open Fields, sorry.  My wife grew up on the western border of Ohio and knows Indiana quite well.  We were just in Indiana a week ago fr the Notre Dame home opener against Nevada.  Had an awesome time and spent the night in Shipshewana eating some Amish food and such. 
 
cheers
 
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