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seeds Seed saving!!!!

I read an interesting reply : Isolate flowers before saving the seeds? what does this mean???
I have 3 different pepper plants. So when I save the seeds from a Jolokia pepper is there a risk I could get another type of pepper from a Jolokia pepper seed? Hope to get this cleared up, before I start giving away some seeds.. Thank you
 
If the flowers or plants were not isolated there is a chance of a cross. It will show up in the seeds you saved.
 
I grow peppers in very close proximity of each other.
And I find that it is mebbe 1 in 10 that you get a cross! If that even!
And if you are sharing not selling then just tell people they are OP.
Most folks dont mind at all!

Kevin
 
I suppose that some people sharing don't mind getting a surprise but others who put a lot of time into growing specific plants might not be too happy finding out they spend the last several months caring for something other than they intended. Those bastard plants take up time, space and effort. Even if you are trading, you shouldn't bill them as one specific variety unless you know they are pure. As long as you let others know it "might" be a cross, then the results are on them.
 
Aaaaaaaaw man, I'll have to update my seedlist to just "miscellaneous pepper" for all my seeds then. Dang it, just when I thought I was getting ahead...

Long story short, crossed happen but not as often as people think. If you happen to get a hybrid plant...just chalk it up to old mother nature.
 
I'm with Red Tail... the hot banana grew like crazy, fruited before all others, and man it tastes like lettuce DAMN you LOWE'S... :hell: I dug them up. re-potted them with love, and am gonna give em to a neighbor who thinks ketchup is spicy!!! :beer:
 
...
And if you are sharing not selling then just tell people they are OP.
Most folks dont mind at all!

Kevin

I do isolate for seed but I agree with Kevin. I think it is fine to roll the dice as long as you inform those you are trading with.
 
I read an interesting reply : Isolate flowers before saving the seeds? what does this mean???
I have 3 different pepper plants. So when I save the seeds from a Jolokia pepper is there a risk I could get another type of pepper from a Jolokia pepper seed? Hope to get this cleared up, before I start giving away some seeds.. Thank you

(Edited because I am a fool and apparently cannot read.)

Unintentional crosses may occur. You need to isolate flower buds in order to prevent cross pollination. There are a number of ways to do this. I bag flowers BEFORE they open with tulle. Some people glue the flowers closed.
 
You would be surprised at how many seed sellers grow their plants close to eachother, and RARELY have crosses. The way I see it, all 4 sides of a plant usually will not be connected to another plant. Just pick pods from THAT side, and you should be MORE than fine.
 
You would be surprised at how many seed sellers grow their plants close to eachother, and RARELY have crosses.
+1 HP ^
And cross pollination is pod specific, so if ya save seed from lots of pods you will most likely have plenty of good seeds!


Kevin
 
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Great information guys!!!!! Im thinking if I ever sell or trade seeds, I will grow them indoors on a hydroponic system, but only the same plant. Thank s
 
I read an interesting reply : Isolate flowers before saving the seeds? what does this mean???
I have 3 different pepper plants. So when I save the seeds from a Jolokia pepper is there a risk I could get another type of pepper from a Jolokia pepper seed? Hope to get this cleared up, before I start giving away some seeds.. Thank you
First of all I have to apologize for my English (as I am not a native English speaker) but I hope you will understand me.
About your question: the basic knowledge on Capsicum crosses is that from the five mostly grown domesticated species C.pubescens don't cross with the others. So be confident it will be no accidental cross between C.pubescens and the other species, only between different varieties of it. C.baccatum crosses sporadically with C.annuum, C.chinense or C.frutescens, so very little chances to happen, except intentionally by artificial pollination. In the C.annuum complex (which is C.annuum, C.chinense, C.frutescens and some wild species) the crosses between species occur oftenly with a vary degree of succes. Literature says it can be from 10 to 90% to have fertile offsprings from these crosses. But 10-90% is about the rate of succes for artificial hand-made polinattions, in controled conditions, and I thing that actually it is no more than 1% in natural conditions, under the action of wind and insect pollinators. Which not to much for a usual gardener which want to save some seeds for his use. If want to trade or sell seeds, you should consider isolating the plants.
Here is how I do it: Chile peppers have quite small and fragile flowers so isolating individual flowers is tricky. It can be and it is done when interspecific or intervarietal intentional crosses are made, to obtain hybrids. It is easier to isolate entire plants using isolation cages made from semi-porous fabric (like tulle or the kind of fabric used for protection of plants against early spring freez). They are various comercially available brands (Agritex, Agryl etc.). I enclose the plant in this bag and use stalks and ring plastic suports.
I will show you now the pros and cons of this method:
Pro: -- this method insures nearly perfect avoidance of accidental crosses by wind and flying insect pollinators
-- the fabric also protects the plants against heil, heavy rain, wind, sunscald, low temperatures (during night or late autumn) and some pests (like caterpillars or bugs)
Contras: -- money to be spent ( around 4-5 $ for every isolated plant), but most of the materials can be used many years
-- the amount of money and extra time limits the possible number of seed producing plants
-- the bags modify the microclimate, with slightly higher temperatures and air humidity (especially during mornings with dew or fog) and lower light
-- plants are more susceptible to diseases, because of the microclimate, which means more sprayings
-- plants can be more often damaged by aphids or trips, because the natural predators have no access
-- overall there is a need for extra care and extra time
To avoid or limit the damages caused by diseases and pests, I check the plants regularly (usually one or twice every week) and spray whenever needed. To avoid pollen contamination during manipulation of bags, I use two replacing sets of bags. The set I remove I gently wash it and disinfect (with a light concentration of bleach) and I use it next time.
Hopefully this was useful for you.
 
That's a good pro and con overview, Bunicutz, as I'm starting to think more about the seed saving game.

It gives me the idea this year to go ahead and save seeds from my only C. baccatum in the garden. It an Aji Rojo growing close to some C. annuum pequins. For them to cross would be like a wolf with a poodle dog, I guess.... :cool:
 
There is another method to avoid accidental crossing: hand-made pollination with pollen from the same plant or from other plant(s) of the same variety. I use it mainly for intentional hybrid crosses but also for wild species and some recalcitrant varieties. It works fairly well and ensures a good rate of succes and genetic purity of seeds.
You can see on YouTube a nice video about how it is done (look for Pollination Methods: Peppers from wiscplantbreeding).
Some details about how I do it: I collect the pollen in the previous afternoon (just not to be too hot) using an electric vibratory tooth brush with the head removed, I store the pollen in small Eppendorf tubes overnight and I transfer the pollen to the stigma with a cotton bud, like the ones for ear cleaning, early in the morning. I pollinate the buds which are "just to open" to be sure the stigma is receptive and no contamination occured earlier. After pollination I isolate the flower with a small piece of sticky paper like Post It (not something very fancy just to block access of bees) and I mark the flower with a piece of coloured string. The isolation can be removed after 2 days. Some flowers will abort but this is a fairly good method if only a small amount of seeds is needed. Of course it takes some extra time and need to have a stady fine hand to do it.
Another thing: I prefer whenever possible to use pollen from other plant(s) of the same variety or even better from the same variety but a different source, just to try keeping the gene pool large and divers as possible.
Good luck.
 
How close do you have your plants to each other? If they are getting all intwined the risk of accidental crossing is obviously greater.

I have read that wind cross pollination very rarely occurs and it is usually insects to blame. If you are growing indoors with no insects or gusty winds, and the plants are far enough away from each other the risk is much less.

I have lots of different varieties close together outside so I am going to use little bags made out of a curtain. Firstly to get some reliable seed for next season, and secondly for making intentional crosses. If you save seed from you best growing plants you can be sure they are suited to your specific climate and conditions.

It is a lot of work to isolate self pollinating flowers if you can just order the seed for next season, but its worthwile for rare plants.
 
How close do you have your plants to each other? If they are getting all intwined the risk of accidental crossing is obviously greater.

I have read that wind cross pollination very rarely occurs and it is usually insects to blame. If you are growing indoors with no insects or gusty winds, and the plants are far enough away from each other the risk is much less.

I have lots of different varieties close together outside so I am going to use little bags made out of a curtain. Firstly to get some reliable seed for next season, and secondly for making intentional crosses. If you save seed from you best growing plants you can be sure they are suited to your specific climate and conditions.

It is a lot of work to isolate self pollinating flowers if you can just order the seed for next season, but its worthwile for rare plants.

Yes, the mechanical contamination with unwanted pollen can occur if the plants grow to close to other variety. This is my case when I grow seed producing plants in greenhouse, during winter, without isolation cages. So I put the plants of a particular variety at 0.5 to 1 meter from other variety (this is the distance between the edges of the bushes, not the main stems). I grow the plants in containers so I can do it easely, even if I don't now how large will be the plants at full development stage. In the gaps I put mint and sage. Just for the reason that I have a small collection of different varieties from this species and also some troubles with whiteflies and I prefer the pests to stay away my peppers much as possible (aparently they prefer more the mint and sage).
Again yes, multiplying seeds in near perfect isolation is time and resource consuming, but I do it for a number of reasons : my pleasure comes in the first place, and after that is the need to have a small amount of seeds available from every variety, which is not necesarly rare but interesting for me. And some of them are "one of a kind" like the ones coming directly from genebanks. The reason of isolating the flowers intentionally hybridized is obvious.
 
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