theory versus practice for small pots

teejay

teejay

Hi All,
 
I have seen a few posts discussing pot size and what not recently, and this is an issue that affects me too.
 
However, I have two specific questions that seemingly diverge from recent conversation so I'll ask them as a seperate topic.
 
1) If you are very much space constrained, and 6" pots is about as large as you can offer your plants, the roots will be quite constrained. However, it is satisfactory to compensate by say fertilising more often but with a reduced dosage so the roots don't have to work as hard?
 
2) In my case, I could use an alternative setup whereby I pot three of four plants into 12L heavy duty buckets. Still not alot of room, and the above mentioned higher frequency of fertilising would be necessary I think, but would root competition cause all sorts of problems in a container that size ?
 
Note that I am not looking for my plants to produce a huge harvest, nor am I looking to grow them to maximum size. I just want them to do the best they can with what I can give them.
 
Regards,
 
Tim
 
Edit - why ask such a seemingly simple question ? It's because the difference between the two options will be roughly 200 dollars by the time I have potted up 150 plants. So, it would be nice to know that if I spent that sort of money that it was clearly worth it.
 
IMO, the better question to ask yourself is what are you expecting for plant productivity.  I have grown peppers in countless types of containers.  In general, my findings are the more soil, the more productive. This spring we grew peppers in a 1/2 Gallon cardboard orange juice container which is one of the smaller containers I have used.  Yes, we had peppers. But it wasn't very productive and only produced maybe 10 peppers, even using fertilizer.  The root ball in that container when I pulled it out was just massive.  There was no way all those roots were getting the appropriate amount of nutrients. On the flip side, same pepper plant in my garden this year produced about 100 peppers per plant. I have found that a 5 gallon bucket with a good soil mix and added good quality compost works best for me.
Have you thought about hydroponics?  I had very good success in a 3 gallon DWC unit with 4 plants.  There is also a newer way of combining soil and hydroponics that looks to be very good.  Youtube has some good information on both these types.  Hope that helps a bit.
 
If you are growing in small containers then the quality of the soil becomes much more important. You need to have the absolute best (highest porosity and cec) soil you can get. 
I have some 10 month old plants in 6" containers that are doing well, and are loaded with peppers. They are growing in a Coir Pith mix of Coir, Pinebark and Perlite. 
 
Why not grow fewer plants in larger pots? In my experience 1 larger plant in a 14" container will outproduce 5 smaller plants in 6" containers or even 3 plants in 10" containers. 
 
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I just re-read you post and you are not looking for max yield.  In that case, I'd go with a 3 gallon container which didn't do to bad on yield, yet was more productive than some of the smaller pots I used.

I agree with thegreenman.  I planted two plants in a 5 gallon bucket and had decent results.  As he said, key is good quality soil. 
 
150 plants is a lot if I were to be space constrained I would do only 15 plants in 5 gallon buckets I understand you aren't looking for max harvest but in the end I can grow a Chinense to about 4 to 5ft in a 5 gal and get the same if not more production out of them. Plus during summer you will be watering tiny pots twice a day and if you water a day you will be fertilizing about once a week which is a lot more money.
 
On the fertilizer, no, do not fertilize more often or in greater quantity, unless you want to risk giving them fertilizer burn. Also, I see you're in Australia, while I'm in N. America - you're in the midst of warm to hot weather instead of our cold weather. The weather part is what makes me wonder more. Are you just now starting from seed? What is your ultimate plan for the plants? Since I live in an area that gets significant snow and remains cold until fairly late into the spring time, I usually start seeds in January. After they sprout (seeds between two damp coffee filters in a clear plastic tub with a lid), I put them into little bathroom cups filled with a starter mix (holes cut in the cups, of course.) Once they start outgrowing those, I put them into the large Solo cups that so many people think of as beer cups (also with holes...) There most usually remain until it's nice enough outside, then I move them into their final pots. The larger ones may get moved into 1-gallon pots as yet another stage.
 
So my goal is to get them started so they're a decent size when the warm weather arrives, otherwise I'd never get production from anything but annuums, as the grow season here is too short otherwise. Max I've had is 48 plants, and the house was getting really crowded after a bit. I did not try to maintain all 48, but selected some choice plants and brought them back in as overwinters. You're aiming for 150, so unless you have a greenhouse or lots of extra space, things are going to get really tight for you. Knowing what the plants' final destination is intended to be will help us help you.
 
Have you looked into fabric pots? I have gotten bigger plants in fabric pots over plastic pots of the same species, same dirt, and same feeding schedule. For someone with a lack of space that may be a good idea to look in to?
 
Hi All,
 
I'll answer in order of responses;
 
Freddy - I have thought about hydroponics, but I'm not keen on the associated costs. Other than that, I have less space in my house for anything chilli related than I do in my yard. That's city living and housing affordability for you.
 
Nightshade - the number of plants really comes down to the fact that I am interested in a diverse collection for aesthetics as much as I am for harvesting and consuming the actual chilli's. Couple this with the fact that I sow 8 or more for each type, hoping to get 2 through to maturity. Sometimes though, almost all, if not all, survive. What to do with the excess plants? Sure as hell I'm not throwing them away and I think it's fair to say that most friends and family have probably accepted too many "gifts" as it is. I don't want to force my interest down their throats. Also, the nurseries/garden centres over here are mostly not interested, or offer some pathetic amount and put a HUGE markup on them. I say it's better for me to try and grow the plant in full sun and fail as opposed to practically giving them away to nurseries who really don't show much interest in what you are offering. (I hope that answers thegreenman's post as well).
 
On the topic of watering - the geometry of my back yard, and tall fences, puts spots in the yard with good sun exposure all year around at an absolute premium. So much so that my latest investment was a solid, sturdy racking system for storage purposes - 1.8m long, 1.8m high with three wire shelves. That is where I plan on putting almost all of my new plants because it gets full sun in winter and is shaded by my verandah in summer. So, having said that, I'm not sure that smaller pots means more watering in this case because the pots aren't going to be directly exposed to the sun leading up to, and going beyond, it's worst.
 
Geeme - I hear you about the fertiliser. I started sowing in mid August and my most recent batch was about a week ago. I expect those sowed earlier in that period to reach maturity and produce as much a they can, but I'm not expecting that to be more than say a handful or two. The most recent that I have sowed is really for getting enough fresh seed for the next couple of seasons, and to have some specific plants to try varying over-wintering practices.
 
I have a 2.27 x 2.27m shadehouse. It has a 2.2 x 0.7 x 0.8m (high) garden bed in it. But, the shadehouse is right up in the corner of my yard, and that corner points almost due north. With the fences being 2.0m high, I get perhaps three months of good use out of it and then full shadowing occurs and it's wait until next yeat. Even with my dozen or so favourite plants in the garden bed, in the protected shade house, I certainly didn't get a bumper crop of kilos worth of chilli's but the plants got really quite large. I have had better results from plants in 8-10" pots .... But, I expect the mix I used in the garden bed is to blame so I can't be too hasty with any frustration. Changing the mix in it will be part of next years experimentation. (I also have a three tiered stand in the shadehouse, being 1.44m wide and the shelves go up 0.4m between them - most "spares" from the most successfully germinated types will go in there (thereby reducing the load on my rack system mentioned earlier).
 
Ultimately, I want my plants to be healthy in their spots, looking just as good as the chilli's they provide. I *think* I have learnt this year via lengthy experimentation what works for my cycle of 'germination - potting up - potting out', but it's just a matter of finalising the size of the potting out step.
 
Thanks and Regards,
 
Tim
 
Edit - sorry Lawrence, I forgot to mention that your suggestion is something I haven't even heard of so I will look into it. Thank you.
 
teejay said:
Edit - why ask such a seemingly simple question ? It's because the difference between the two options will be roughly 200 dollars by the time I have potted up 150 plants. So, it would be nice to know that if I spent that sort of money that it was clearly worth it.
Click to expand...
Do you have a list of what strains will make up the 150 plants?

Would most of them be Capsicum chinense?

In the 2011-2012 season I had some plants holding fruit in 3 L pots filled entirely with Debco Seed Raising Mix. That was an expensive season when it came to potting mix.
 
Most of the plants are indeed Capsicum chinense.
 
I have just today got my hands on a couple of dozen styrofoam boxes for planting up. There are about 36 litres / 9.5 gallons each and I'll probably put four to five in each pot (together with some sort of annual flowering plant like Marigolds to attract the pollinators).
 
Yes, Ideally I would only put two or maybe three in each, but it's better than 6" pots and the styrofoam boxes allow me to find homes for 90 plants in my outdoor racking system. They also allow me to find homes for 30 plants in my shadehouse.
 
During experimentation this year, I have been using the Debco Seed Raising Mix and MiracleGrow Orchid mix (seperately) in 2" pots to step up from Jiffy pellets. If anything, I see a minor bit more green in the plants with the Debco, and I do mean minor. The growth rate has been pretty much the same for both mixes. So, the Orchid mix is cheaper therefore it's what I will be using in my styrofoam boxes.
 
Now it's just a matter of finding out whether to go for liquid ferts from now on, or not, based on the assumption that fine slow release stuff like blood and bone will wash right out. Fun times ahead !
 
Regards,
 
Tim
 
I grow my chilli seedlings in hydro and from what I have seen I believe with the right conditions you can indeed get a large plant with a relatively small root zone.  Obviously the conditions in hydroponics are optimised, they take more effort and expense to get right, but its also easy for everything to go wrong. There is a limit because the plant can only suck so much volume through small roots.
 
With small pots on a rack I have found its better to water as frequently as possible with a well draining mix.  Mixing some coco coir in with material like perlite or something that drains and doesn't hold any water gives you moisture holding and good drainage.  Regular potting mixes tend to hold too much water for chillies.
 
You mentioned it and I agree above all do not let the pot/root zone heat up from direct sun.  That is one of the big problems with small pots. 
 
Liquid ferts are a good bet because you can control the amount all the time.  If you overdose you can easily flush it out.  Slow release stuff is in there and you have to get it right the first time.  I get good results with liquid ferts.
 
Post some pics of your plants and setup :)
 
edit:  When I say water as frequently as possible I mean to have a soil mix that needs watering frequently, balanced with how often you can get out there to do it.  Automation helps a lot with this.
 
Just a thought, but you could do hydro on your fence with little but some PVC pipe, a cheap pump, and a 5 gallon bucket.
It may seem intimidating, but really----they want to grow and will do so with little but water, food and light.
 
You can do a tower for cheap----get a pipe, fill with dirt, punch holes every so many fractions of a meter. (works best with a circle of chicken wire a foot or so outside the pipe for them to climb on)
It can be as tall as you wish.
 
Limited space doesn't limit the prospects.
 
http://www.gardentowerproject.com/food-grade-100-recyclable
 
Fancy one---retail---but you get the idea and can do it yourself.
 
http://www.hgtvgardens.com/garden-types/grow-up-make-a-vertical-strawberry-tower
 
Not-so-fancy DIY.
 
may want to think about a flood table full of coco . You can pack alot of plants into them and they will do awsome. Peppers arnt that bad in hydro  since they like weak mix . Coco is pretty damn forgiving.
 
Hi Megamoo / Gotrox / Motocross,
 
All good suggestions and good information.
 
Megamoo - I think you share the same thinking I do. After getting my boxes, I was keen to do some potting up, but the weather here is CRAP!! For example, the bureau of meterology predicts a 30 degree day out of nowhere and we end up getting 32 or 33. We then get a follow up week of low 20's of even lower. Then, another day at 32 or so, and now we are predicted to get 22, 23, 24, 26, 27, 28 for the next 6 days, with night time at 12, 13 or 14. I kid you not !! How do you grow chilli's in that, and we are in summer. Arghhh - we will get a 40 degree day out of nowhere in the next few weeks, and it will kill almost everything. That's SA for you. (Incidentally, how does one post pictures if they don't want to sign up for one of those internet picture sharing sites ?)
 
Gotrox - I like your thinking as well, but my fences are what we call Colourbond and the sheets won't take as much weight hanging from them as I would like, and I really don't want to drill or affix anything. I have liberated some space down the side of my house for now, so the fences can rest easy, at least for the moment.
 
Motorcross - I hear you, and I think I will experiment with Coco next year.
 
Regards,
 
Tim
 
I don't know how to do it without signing up.  I did have a free photobucket account but I filled it up and they kept changing it making it too hard to use.  Then I think they were going to start charging money for using it or something.  Now I upload them to The Hot Pepper gallery because I've got an extreme account.  There must be a decent free photo hosting service out there but I don't know.
 
You just have to roll with the weather, Perth has been fairly stable so far, but its forecast to get up to 35 and stay there by the end of the week.  My plants in the ground should love it :)
 
The weather has made it difficult to acclimitise my seedlings to full sun, or even indirect sun, so I believe they aren't as big as they should be.
 
However, in a dedicated shadehouse with 70% block, even those plants aren't as big as they should be.
 
Couple that with the almost constant spring time wind over 35kph at my location, and wind chill makes things worse.
 
Speaking of such, the winds have not disappeared, nor have the night time temps gone up on average.
 
In a way, I'm glad my plants are still in 6" pots or less - that way, when we do get our first scorchers, I can move most of them inside if I have to save their lives !
 
It certainly is give and take - before I know it, I'll be whinging that the temps aren't coming down enough by Winter ;)
 
And in retrospect, I'm glad I went for styrofoam boxes !
 
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