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seeds Why organic seed?

I've wondered about the coloured seeds I got them in a pack of commercial seeds once. Usually I do go for organic seeds mainly because I like the choice and range of more interesting heirloom varieties.

Interesting about the roundup resistance I wasn't aware of that.

I'm a little surprised your anti vac, NOT having a dig at you here it's just that you come across as a science minded person. Which I highly respect btw
 
Jase4224 said:
I'm a little surprised your anti vac, NOT having a dig at you here it's just that you come across as a science minded person. Which I highly respect btw
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I'm anti-vaccination for me. Because I've got great genetics, and I pursue a healthy lifestyle. I understand the need for vaccinations, when we, as societies, don't practice the importance of good health, and it becomes necessary to prevent epidemics from occurring. However, I believe strongly (from a scientific viewpoint) that we are heavily over-reliant on modern medicine, and often favor it over what nature provides for us, sufficiently. If we wanted to be ultra-scientific, it could be argued that relying on natural health and defense mechanisms, helps natural selection work properly, and keeps our population in check. Not a popular position, I get it. So I have my choice not to get vaccinated. I respect your choice, as long as you leave mine alone. If it isn't broken, I don't try to fix it. And like I said, there isn't any vaccine that I'm seeing that prevents something that isn't treatable. (with the possible exception of polio - I'll take my chances)

I do appreciate your comments, and most of the time, I really just being cheeky. Everyone takes it differently, but I'm always the same me.
 
Michaelwburke77 said:
Yeah, you know, let's bring back polio. That'd be great.
I'm not sure why vaccines are even a.topic of discussion here though, honestly.
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Maybe because there is nothing else really to discuss? Oh, but your contribution was fantastic - nothing to say on topic, yourself, but the criticism is well received. By all means, more of that, please... :rolleyes:
 
solid7 said:
I thought that this topic was going to be a... (snap, snap) conversation stimulator, man!

It's not bullshit to state a preference. Not at all. It's bullshit to make unproven claims, but act authoritative over them. I could give two f**ks about what someone wants to make a lifestyle out of - but if you're selling them that lifestyle, then by God, be 100% honest about what they're actually getting.
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The government gave organic its definition. They decided what was organic seed and why. They are selling the lifestyle more than anyone. Do you think they did this without looking into the differences between the seeds? Do you think they don't know? The science you're wanting has already been done. The government is just not telling you what you want to know.
 
Jase4224 said:
Yeah it's true that whenever humans or bees cross pollinate plants you are mixing up ALL the DNA so in theory genetically modifying a few genes should be a non issue.. But, I think people draw the line at adding DNA from non related organisms and that seems to scare people off the idea of GMO foods. That and the name 'genetically modified organism' is a bit of a turn off too, especially for the conspiracy theorist types.

Personally I so far have no problem with GMO as long as it's tested thoroughly and produced responsibly. Until I see any genuine evidence (there's a lot of misleading anti GMO out there probably produced by the anti vaccination douche bags also) that it's harmful I won't actively avoid it.

Agreed that people should have the ability to choose.

Agreed
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Nothing was ever thorough and responsible in relation to GMOs. Don't make yourself out to be devil's advocate here. It is clear you aren't. You seem to be forgetting why GMOs are what they are... Roundup. It's in our soil. It's in our aquifers. It's in our beehives. It's in our vegetables. It's in us. So without going into all the bullshit that they aren't telling us about what the GMOs themselves do to people, there's a reason to be scared of GMOs. It's called Roundup.
 
Devils advocate? Really? I doubt any of us truly know the accurate history of past GMO crops. What I was saying is that is I'm not against future GMO ventures as long as it's carried out in a transparent and thoroughly tested and proven to be safe as possible before release. I'd be lying if I said GMO didn't scare me too, but the fact is it will be a part of our future whether we like it or not so rather than run around calling conspiracy we should probably be calling for the safest possible policies to control GMO production and adoption of transparency and education.

There are some genuinely good people out there working on GMO crops that truly believe they can help feed the world with highly productive, nutritious and resistant crops. Whether or not this is a safe or appropriate way to to go about feeding our ever increasing population I don't know, only time will tell.

Solid7 I applaud you for living and encouraging a healthy lifestyle and it is my opinion that if everybody did so than we wouldn't be using half the medications and have nearly the public health issues as we have now (antibiotic resistance, obesity and cancer for example). Unfortunately though for every one of us that tries to live a healthy lifestyle there are ten others that simply don't care. My second job is in a drive through liquor shop and it disgusts me to see dozens of cars drive through every night with parents smoking in the car with their baby's and children also in the car. I mean it's crazy.. with all the proof that smoking cigarettes contributes to so many health problems we still have parents subjecting their children to that in a confined space. And the parents would argue 'it's my choice to smoke if I wish' but to me that's rubbish. A baby doesn't have a choice you are forcing them to breath smoke and just because you have that child does not give you the right to choose for it breath in shitty toxic chemicals.

That brings me to vaccinations, I understand many viruses that can be vaccinated can also be treated in other ways and healthy people can overcome some if not most viruses. My concern lies not with my own health (I personally don't like to take medication, a have an immune system for a reason) but with the vulnerable such as infants and the elderly. In Australia hooping cough was nearly eradicated, until anti vaccine groups started popping up refused vaccination for their children. Sure enough hooping cough made a return and killed again.

My point is that whilst you have the right to refuse vaccination, and you may well have great genetics and health, you are also making a choice for others. I took the influenza vaccine this year for the first time - not for myself but so that I could help prevent spreading it to the vulnerable.
 
Jase4224 said:
My point is that whilst you have the right to refuse vaccination, and you may well have great genetics and health, you are also making a choice for others. I took the influenza vaccine this year for the first time - not for myself but so that I could help prevent spreading it to the vulnerable.
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I honestly don't wish to incur any sort of illness in the quest to keep others healthy.

People are living on modern science beyond the time (and wellbeing) that nature would have ever allowed them. They aren't any more grateful for it. That's my inner philosopher overriding my inner scientist. Not getting vaccinated. My whole family is vaccine free, and we are flourishing. I'm sticking with that gameplan.

I have never had the flu in my life. You can't ask the person who doesn't get the flu, to get vaccinated. That's not logical.
 
Myxlplyk said:
The government gave organic its definition. They decided what was organic seed and why. They are selling the lifestyle more than anyone. Do you think they did this without looking into the differences between the seeds? Do you think they don't know? The science you're wanting has already been done. The government is just not telling you what you want to know.
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I don't know what I don't know, and I suspect that you don't, either.

Not saying that you are right or wrong, just that you can't prove any of that regurgitated drivel. You haven't researched any of what you've just said, you've only just rebroadcast what every anti-Monsanto site ever, has put out.
 
Michaelwburke77 said:
Yeah, you know, let's bring back polio. That'd be great.
I'm not sure why vaccines are even a.topic of discussion here though, honestly.
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Polio was not the disease they made it out to be. Salk actually made it worse, because it was dying out by the time they started injecting everyone with the disease... err vaccine.

solid7 said:
I don't know what I don't know, and I suspect that you don't, either.

Not saying that you are right or wrong, just that you can't prove any of that regurgitated drivel. You haven't researched any of what you've just said, you've only just rebroadcast what every anti-Monsanto site ever, has put out.
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As opposed to the pro-Monsanto bullshit? Sorry I don't live up to your expectations. Oh, wait a minute... no I'm not. :rolleyes:
 
Jase4224 said:
Devils advocate? Really? I doubt any of us truly know the accurate history of past GMO crops. What I was saying is that is I'm not against future GMO ventures as long as it's carried out in a transparent and thoroughly tested and proven to be safe as possible before release. I'd be lying if I said GMO didn't scare me too, but the fact is it will be a part of our future whether we like it or not so rather than run around calling conspiracy we should probably be calling for the safest possible policies to control GMO production and adoption of transparency and education.

There are some genuinely good people out there working on GMO crops that truly believe they can help feed the world with highly productive, nutritious and resistant crops. Whether or not this is a safe or appropriate way to to go about feeding our ever increasing population I don't know, only time will tell.

Solid7 I applaud you for living and encouraging a healthy lifestyle and it is my opinion that if everybody did so than we wouldn't be using half the medications and have nearly the public health issues as we have now (antibiotic resistance, obesity and cancer for example). Unfortunately though for every one of us that tries to live a healthy lifestyle there are ten others that simply don't care. My second job is in a drive through liquor shop and it disgusts me to see dozens of cars drive through every night with parents smoking in the car with their baby's and children also in the car. I mean it's crazy.. with all the proof that smoking cigarettes contributes to so many health problems we still have parents subjecting their children to that in a confined space. And the parents would argue 'it's my choice to smoke if I wish' but to me that's rubbish. A baby doesn't have a choice you are forcing them to breath smoke and just because you have that child does not give you the right to choose for it breath in shitty toxic chemicals.

That brings me to vaccinations, I understand many viruses that can be vaccinated can also be treated in other ways and healthy people can overcome some if not most viruses. My concern lies not with my own health (I personally don't like to take medication, a have an immune system for a reason) but with the vulnerable such as infants and the elderly. In Australia hooping cough was nearly eradicated, until anti vaccine groups started popping up refused vaccination for their children. Sure enough hooping cough made a return and killed again.

My point is that whilst you have the right to refuse vaccination, and you may well have great genetics and health, you are also making a choice for others. I took the influenza vaccine this year for the first time - not for myself but so that I could help prevent spreading it to the vulnerable.
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You came across as being open-minded, then proceeded to bash people who are conspiracy nuts to you. I'm not worried about the "good people" in this. I'm worried about the unscrupulous bastards who would sell their mother to a purple-suited pimp for his long-feathered hat.
 
Myxlplyk said:
As opposed to the pro-Monsanto bullshit?
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Take it easy, Hoss. Unless you are Jesus Christ in the flesh, nobody gets a free pass. You all have to pass muster with regards to validating your claims. I don't trust any of you over cold, hard, fact. There's a lot of bullshit on both sides.

I grow organically, (mostly) I don't trust doctors, and I'm not vaccinated. I reserve the right to change my stance on any of those things, if evidence sways me.
 
Michaelwburke77 said:
Way to put the immunocompromised at risk. Good for you.

Polio was not the disease they made it out to be?

Wow.
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Stop being so self-righteous. You live in a world where you have access to medical treatment. 100 years ago, you'd be married at 16, and dead from a common cold.

This is the opposite extreme from the position taken by an infamous European leader in the 1930's and 40's, who believed the sick should be culled and bred our of existence. Be careful with your thoughts, and how you impose them upon others. Because people aren't livestock - unless they are.
Michaelwburke77 said:
Ubless you have a legitimate medical exemption, you should be vaccinated.

End of story.
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People like you make me want to be ever the more defiant.
Michaelwburke77 said:
Ubless you have a legitimate medical exemption, you should be vaccinated.

End of story.
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People like you make me want to be ever the more defiant.
 
solid7 said:
Take it easy, Hoss. Unless you are Jesus Christ in the flesh, nobody gets a free pass. You all have to pass muster with regards to validating your claims. I don't trust any of you over cold, hard, fact. There's a lot of bullshit on both sides.

I grow organically, (mostly) I don't trust doctors, and I'm not vaccinated. I reserve the right to change my stance on any of those things, if evidence sways me.
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There's way too much bullshit out there to research, for me to get all worked up over definitions. I go with what sounds right to me. I'm not out here to hand my homework up to your pedestal, to be chastised like some serf. Do your own.
 
Myxlplyk said:
You came across as being open-minded, then proceeded to bash people who are conspiracy nuts to you. I'm not worried about the "good people" in this. I'm worried about the unscrupulous bastards who would sell their mother to a purple-suited pimp for his long-feathered hat.
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Not really following you but here is the meaning of conspiracy and why I dislike conspiracy theorists:

noun, plural conspiracies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

I am open minded but like all of you I still have my opinions. And going through life believing 'what sounds right' in your head.. lucky we have the scientific method otherwise we'd still be drowning 'witches'.
 
Michaelwburke77 said:
Ubless you have a legitimate medical exemption, you should be vaccinated.

End of story.
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Whilst I agree with you I don't think this is a great way to discuss the issue with those that wish not to be vaccinated. Listening to people like Solid7, and trying to find common ground I think will be a more effective way to get everybody cooperate and find a solution.

Anyway I feel a bit bad writing all this stuff in the chilli growing forum. I'm out but will follow, it's been a good discussion.
 
Myxlplyk said:
 
There's way too much bullshit out there to research, for me to get all worked up over definitions. I go with what sounds right to me. I'm not out here to hand my homework up to your pedestal, to be chastised like some serf. Do your own.
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The point wasn't to be graded on your position - it was that you can't expect (again) to have an unsubstantiated point of view, and just expect others to accept it, without challenge.
 
Jase4224 said:
Not really following you but here is the meaning of conspiracy and why I dislike conspiracy theorists:

noun, plural conspiracies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

I am open minded but like all of you I still have my opinions. And going through life believing 'what sounds right' in your head.. lucky we have the scientific method otherwise we'd still be drowning 'witches'.
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Hate to tell you, but scientific method is full of conspiracy, whether it be GMOs or global warming. Maybe ozone depletion and freon? Fracking and earthquakes? *gasp* 9-11?
solid7 said:
The point wasn't to be graded on your position - it was that you can't expect (again) to have an unsubstantiated point of view, and just expect others to accept it, without challenge.
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So then I'm challenged, with more unsubstantiated opinion. Hate to tell you, but not everything has evidence handed to you on a silver platter. Sometimes you have to go with what makes sense. Since plants conform to their environment, it's only makes sense that their seeds do as well.
 
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