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organic A case against Miracle Grow (Organic Choice)

I'm probably going to run off into the hills at some point and live out the rest of my life as a dirty hippie, no shame in that.
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I was telling a friend the other day that I want to own a mountain with a big fence at the bottom, and my house at the top.... Kind of a similar principal.

Except, minus the dirty hippy part... I'd be rather clean, and non hippy like.

but thats not nearly as funny a way to say it.
 
"I was telling a friend the other day that I want to own a mountain with a big fence at the bottom, and my house at the top.... Kind of a similar principal"


:rofl:
 
"This is also not a "retort" just an example of why I use the product"
The reason you gave the example is to counter what others have said. By definition: retort. In fact I would say you went full retort when you wrote that post.

I aplogize. You seem put off by me using the word retort. I am a bit surprised that this is the first time you have heard your posts called retorted.
 
elcap1999 said:
And that's why I'm using Sphagnum Moss :)
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Are you using 100% Moss? I have seen it done in greenhouses where they can controll watering. If it rained and you were using pure peat you would have problems. I am interested because peat is very cheap.
 
Capsicum said:
Are you using 100% Moss? I have seen it done in greenhouses where they can controll watering. If it rained and you were using pure peat you would have problems. I am interested because peat is very cheap.
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I'm actually using it indoors exclusively, so unexpected watering isn't gonna be a problem :)
 
^^ I'm guessing your using lime to offset the pH? .. so your really using just peat and ferts? ..and no issues with edema? and when you water do you water it all the way so that water comes out the bottom or just enough to make it wet without over watering
 
If you use Miracle Grow soil for peppers, whatever you do, do not add more nutes. They already have enough in there for a small tree. Pro-Mix BX makes growing easy.
 
bigt said:
If you use Miracle Grow soil for peppers, whatever you do, do not add more nutes. They already have enough in there for a small tree. Pro-Mix BX makes growing easy.
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+1. I learned this the hard way with the very first germination tray, and came up with bubkis for seedlings.
 
Yes if you add lime you can grow in 100% peat. If you can control watering it is ok. It will not have the best air in it when wet but as it is drys the plant will grow. Understanding the heavier the grow medium the less watering and you can a have a large plant in a smaller container. Being it will be so heavy it will not allow the plant to tip over and your smaller pot will support your plant. I am going to show how much you can grow in 2 gal pots this year using miracle gro (heavy medium) with added peat and perlite and /lime to grow nice sized Jalapeno plants!!!!
 
frosty said:
"This is also not a "retort" just an example of why I use the product"
The reason you gave the example is to counter what others have said. By definition: retort. In fact I would say you went full retort when you wrote that post.

I aplogize. You seem put off by me using the word retort. I am a bit surprised that this is the first time you have heard your posts called retorted.
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I wasn't put off, the original retort wasn't even aimed in my direction. I was just poking fun of you two getting all retorted on each other. Thought it was funny...So in all actuality my post was a post about my results using MG and then potentially a retort on how retorted you were each getting...I don't think I've ever (until today) freely used the term unless I was quoting Pulp Fiction.
 
Man that's RETORTED! Wouldn't the first time just be a TORT?(singular), and then if I repeated myself, after being told what I really meant was not what I meant even if I said so, actually be the RETORT(which means: to Tort the same way a second time;After which it becomes a THREETORT if you really want to split hairs)....but uh...I'm gonna roll with it, get me a "Don't Tort on Me" tat, and a wallet that says"Bad Mother Torter".
TORT up-
Dave
 
stc3248 said:
Here are two Goat's Weed plants that were basically identical until not quite two weeks ago when I repotted one into MG moisture control. They were started, sprouted and have been growing side by side in the same greenhouse ...

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The one on the left got potted up before the other because it was actually doing a little better at that time. The pot on the rt is about an inch shorter than the orange one too, so the height difference is even greater than it appears. The green pot is in MG moisture control...

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The difference in height is impressive, but the difference in color and secondary growth is what has me really happy....

This is also not a "retort" just an example of why I use the product...I realize that MG Organic was the the product targeted, but the thread title call out all MG products. I am certain that one of the reasons I had trouble with the organic soil I tried was my experience level with the soil. However results are results and a picture is worth 1000 words so I will let them speak for themselves...

Shane
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Wow! I was looking for a bagged soil mix, rather than mixing one myself. I'm new to growing, and I didn't want to get into mixing. So, your photos have convinced me that the MG Moisture Control may work very well. :) Woot! Thanks for the post.
 
Miracle grow is a very poor soil. It is too water retensive. Particles are too small. It has perched water at the bottom of the pot that rots and cramps roots. It dries out too slow causing other problems such as attracting pests like gnats, algae and fungi. Roots grow thin and brown in it. It causes edema. It does not hold enough air. It also has salt buildup due to people watering in sips or watering from below. It is very difficult for a beginning gardener to use since watering is so damn fussy.

A fast draining soil such as a bark based one is far superior. Try 5 parts composted pine bark fines, 1 part sphagnum peat, and 1 part course perlite. Add dolomite lime to adjust pH. This soil is fast draining, has lots of air space, does not build salt, and roots are thick and white in it. Growth is far faster with all the available oxygen. You can leave it out in the rain without worrying about it getting saturated. In fact it's almost impossible to over water it.
 
Miracle Grow might be *okay* for indoor plants provided you amend it a little to let the material dry out faster. The problem outdoors comes with irregular watering, so if the plants get rained on over a period of days the slow release ferts will be flushed through the mix constantly and you might end up burning the roots. The actual structure of some of their potting mixes is actually okay, it's the amount of nutes I object to. In the case of the Organic Choice, you have this problem and then no way to prevent compaction, so the soil turns into a solid mass of nuted-out crap in short order.

I noticed the other day that even their perlite has some of their ferts in it. I mean, really.
 
I know there are people out there that love MG soil, my wife was one of them. She's used it for 30 years . She is usually very resistant to change, but when she saw the results I was getting with the 5-1-1, she has also given up on MG soil, and is now always asking me to "mix up some of that bark stuff will you?". Her plants are doing far better then in the past.

My thoughts are this. If you have to amend a premixed soil to make it work why bother? You can make a better soil for less money from scratch. It's no more work to mix up then amending a soil.

In fact, to do an analogy, putting peas in a soup, really doesn't improve the the drainage at all until you get enough peas to make it the majority (70% or more?) of the mix. Other then that, the soup just fills the spaces between the peas.

You need the base (majority) material to be well drained (bark), and then add amendments (peat and perlite) to help control and retain moisture and nutrients. Much more effective.
 
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