For example: adding real tequila to a hot sauce, even in a small ammount. Does that make the food item into an ATF issue?
legal Anyone know the legality of using an alcoholic ingredient in a non-alcoholic food item?
- Thread starter Sam & Oliver
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salsalady
Business Member
DON'T CALL YOUR LAWYER!!!! Call your INSPECTOR!!!! Most lawyers don't have a clue about food related issues. For that matter, I've found it difficult to find a lawyer who has a clue about the self-employed side of business.
If you want to use a "brand name" alcohol, then contact that company.
(edit to incorporate TheBoss's next comments)
If the product "must have" XXXX=brand alcohol in the recipe, then the processor needs to get clearance from XXXX=brand alcohol to be listed on the label. Rum is Rum, Tequila is Tequila....and in a sauce....x-rum -vs- y-rum will not make any difference in the taste of the sauce. If it does make a difference, then it might be worth it to the producer to get clearance to use x-rum's brand name on the label.
edit- look at this from a business 101 point of view. Everything I do as an electrical contractor is governed by the NEC, WAC/RCW's and is subject to inspection and approval from the state electrial inspector (aka the Authority Having Juristicion aka AHJ). If they sign off on work I've done, they are saying it's safe and appropriate. If something goes wrong down the road, and it's something they've inspected, the blame goes to them.
As a food processor, every product I make and sell has gone through multiple approvals and reviews. As long as I follow the process as dictated by the PA (aka Process Authority) and my labels and facility have been approved by my state inspector....I'm good to go! THEY are my AHJ's for the food business. Sometimes the FDA is another AHJ depending on the product, ingredients, and processes.
Laywers don't have squat to do with the food business, at least on the food side of things. Yes, they do business things, like Corps etc, but they are the absolute LAST person to talk to about this issue of alcohol in food.
Just my opinion based on my experiences. Different states have different regulations. Talk to your state and local health district authorities.
If you want to use a "brand name" alcohol, then contact that company.
(edit to incorporate TheBoss's next comments)
If the product "must have" XXXX=brand alcohol in the recipe, then the processor needs to get clearance from XXXX=brand alcohol to be listed on the label. Rum is Rum, Tequila is Tequila....and in a sauce....x-rum -vs- y-rum will not make any difference in the taste of the sauce. If it does make a difference, then it might be worth it to the producer to get clearance to use x-rum's brand name on the label.
edit- look at this from a business 101 point of view. Everything I do as an electrical contractor is governed by the NEC, WAC/RCW's and is subject to inspection and approval from the state electrial inspector (aka the Authority Having Juristicion aka AHJ). If they sign off on work I've done, they are saying it's safe and appropriate. If something goes wrong down the road, and it's something they've inspected, the blame goes to them.
As a food processor, every product I make and sell has gone through multiple approvals and reviews. As long as I follow the process as dictated by the PA (aka Process Authority) and my labels and facility have been approved by my state inspector....I'm good to go! THEY are my AHJ's for the food business. Sometimes the FDA is another AHJ depending on the product, ingredients, and processes.
Laywers don't have squat to do with the food business, at least on the food side of things. Yes, they do business things, like Corps etc, but they are the absolute LAST person to talk to about this issue of alcohol in food.
Just my opinion based on my experiences. Different states have different regulations. Talk to your state and local health district authorities.
SL knows! She makes a product with alcohol.
Replying for clarity. If you want to use the name and/or logo, yes, otherwise, just list it as tequila.
Replying for clarity. If you want to use the name and/or logo, yes, otherwise, just list it as tequila.
Salsa Lady drops the hammer...
...the hammer of knowledge.
(I was at a friend's tonight & his food industry friend said something pretty similar when i asked. your only concerns are content/labeling & branding - e.g. To use brand names or not)
...the hammer of knowledge.
(I was at a friend's tonight & his food industry friend said something pretty similar when i asked. your only concerns are content/labeling & branding - e.g. To use brand names or not)
salsalady
Business Member
I do not know everything, never will...just sharing what I know from my own experiences relating to the subject at hand.
Every producer has to find their own course. Some regs apply to one but not the other. Use i-net for a general direction, but in the end, every food processor/sauce maker/jerky maker/ mustard connoisseur/ yougettheidea......every business person is responsible for their own business.
If they choose to rely on advice given on an internet forum.......and that advice is wrong..... TooBadSoSad if something goes wrong.
Do your homework for whatever business you want to do. It's a business and it's a food business, and if done wrong.....people can die.
Every producer has to find their own course. Some regs apply to one but not the other. Use i-net for a general direction, but in the end, every food processor/sauce maker/jerky maker/ mustard connoisseur/ yougettheidea......every business person is responsible for their own business.
If they choose to rely on advice given on an internet forum.......and that advice is wrong..... TooBadSoSad if something goes wrong.
Do your homework for whatever business you want to do. It's a business and it's a food business, and if done wrong.....people can die.
So if I want to call it a "Patron Hot Sauce" I would have to contact patron to use their brand logo, usage, etc.
But if I want to use a well-drink quality off brand tequila that no one has heard of, I can just list Tequila in the ingredients?
But I can't call it a "Tequila Hot Sauce" because I would need Mexico's permission?
But if I want to use a well-drink quality off brand tequila that no one has heard of, I can just list Tequila in the ingredients?
But I can't call it a "Tequila Hot Sauce" because I would need Mexico's permission?
salsalady
Business Member
from what I know, and this is just from my experience-
You can use Patron and list it generically as "tequila" with no problems, doesn't have to be well-drink quality. From what I understand about tequila (which is pretty little), tequila can only be PRODUCED in certain areas of Mexico. There are many different makers of tequila. If you want to use one specific brand name (Hornitos, Patron) and you want that name on the label, then, yes, you would need to get approval of that company. I don't think Mexico has a restriction on the use of the word "tequila" in any context. But if you have a spare year or two, go ahead and contact the Mexican gobernment. They're very efficient and will get back to you right away.
Consider your decision to list a premium brand by name on your label carefully. Once you have several thousand labels printed with "Patron Scorpion Hot Sauce" you will be locked into using that specific brand name of tequila. If you substitute Hornitos or any other brand, you are out of compliance and could be liable for a false representation claim. Nothing wrong with listing "premium tequila" in the ingredients, or "reposado tequila" (whatever they call the high end tequila).
You can use Patron and list it generically as "tequila" with no problems, doesn't have to be well-drink quality. From what I understand about tequila (which is pretty little), tequila can only be PRODUCED in certain areas of Mexico. There are many different makers of tequila. If you want to use one specific brand name (Hornitos, Patron) and you want that name on the label, then, yes, you would need to get approval of that company. I don't think Mexico has a restriction on the use of the word "tequila" in any context. But if you have a spare year or two, go ahead and contact the Mexican gobernment. They're very efficient and will get back to you right away.
Consider your decision to list a premium brand by name on your label carefully. Once you have several thousand labels printed with "Patron Scorpion Hot Sauce" you will be locked into using that specific brand name of tequila. If you substitute Hornitos or any other brand, you are out of compliance and could be liable for a false representation claim. Nothing wrong with listing "premium tequila" in the ingredients, or "reposado tequila" (whatever they call the high end tequila).
I spoke with a wine maker once who complained about not being able to use certain words in the name of the wine. Port, Champaigne, etc... those are location specific trade names, port wine or anything with port in the TITLE of the product has to be from portugal, spain. Champaigne has to come from Champaigne France, etc.
So I couldn't make my own sweet red wine and call it "The Portly Bear" or "Any Port in the Storm" because "Port" is now a registered trademarked name. This happened about 2006 for the wine makers, they call it a 'shakedown.'
I'm still going to ask but I believe I could add tequila, list it as an ingrediant and just use a name like "Margarita Hot Sauce" "Bhutkelia Sunrise" (I call dibbs lol) or "reposado red hot", etc.
So I couldn't make my own sweet red wine and call it "The Portly Bear" or "Any Port in the Storm" because "Port" is now a registered trademarked name. This happened about 2006 for the wine makers, they call it a 'shakedown.'
I'm still going to ask but I believe I could add tequila, list it as an ingrediant and just use a name like "Margarita Hot Sauce" "Bhutkelia Sunrise" (I call dibbs lol) or "reposado red hot", etc.
If you use Patron & want to call your sauce "Patron sauce" or "featuring Patron tequila" you need permission from the mfgr.
If you use Patron & list it as "tequila" in the ingredients but don't mention patron anywhere then you should be ok.
But once again- check with your local authorities. There may be a threshold for how much alcohol by content your sauce can contain, etc.
I am by no means an expert. But lots of products have alcohol in them.
Re: specialized things like port or champaign, my friend had a beef jerky company. One of his flavors is "prime rib dinner". Horseradish & rosemary - great flavor.
The USDA put the kibosh on that because it was not made from prime rib. So he could not say prime rib anywhere, even he used "prime rib flavored".
So now it's called "PRD".
Lame. I don't think you'll run into that trouble with tequila, but keep in mind that there are geographic rules about "whiskey" vs "bourbon".
If you use Patron & list it as "tequila" in the ingredients but don't mention patron anywhere then you should be ok.
But once again- check with your local authorities. There may be a threshold for how much alcohol by content your sauce can contain, etc.
I am by no means an expert. But lots of products have alcohol in them.
Re: specialized things like port or champaign, my friend had a beef jerky company. One of his flavors is "prime rib dinner". Horseradish & rosemary - great flavor.
The USDA put the kibosh on that because it was not made from prime rib. So he could not say prime rib anywhere, even he used "prime rib flavored".
So now it's called "PRD".
Lame. I don't think you'll run into that trouble with tequila, but keep in mind that there are geographic rules about "whiskey" vs "bourbon".
Great info all, just to be sure I have one that's made with Spiced Rum and made it with 2 different types just to see if there would be a difference in taste if i used one versus another and it came out so simular that it would take a very trained pallet to tell the difference. So the only reason I would need to list the Brand name is if i were to identify it with that company. I have to change the name I orignally used but that's an easy fix prior to starting production of it with all the other steps it will have to go through too. Cool 
Carabas did not I'd my young son the other night when he ordered chicken Marsala.