Bhut Bih or Naga?

[smariotti]

The first pepper I tried to grow was a Bhut Jolokia. Ordered it from Hirt's Gardens and it got too hot over the weekend (I'm growing at work) and dried out and died.

I tried to re-order but they were out of Bhut Jolokias, so I gotta Naga Morich (two actually) instead and have been growing those at work. Both are doing great.

Now, here's the thing I'm confused about. According to wikipedia and the casual observer, Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia, and Naga Morich are just different names for the same pepper. The super hot world record holder pepper from Assam India. In India they call it the "Bhut Jolokia" or "Bih Jolokia" and in Bangladesh they call it the "Naga Morich." Or so it goes.

I notice that people more illuminated in the ways of peppers talk about these names as three distinct varieties of peppers.

So this is my question: What's the difference? Originating region? Plant height? Fruit size? Hotness? Taste?

I know that the Dorset Naga is a variety that was developed in the UK from the original Indian pepper, and understand why this one is called out separately from the others. Can someone more in the know than myself shed a little light on this for us budding (heh!) pepper heads?

 

[4re308]

I want to grow all of them and cannot wait to try them all. Why am I so facinated by these little peppers?

 

[smariotti]

I want to grow all of them and cannot wait to try them all. Why am I so facinated by these little peppers?

Yeah, I dunno. It was the nagas that got me "into peppers" and hot sauces recently. There's something compelling about this (up until recently) obscure pepper that's so extremely hot.

I'm growing the Naga Morich here at work after killing a Bhut Jolokia accidentally (well, who'd kill one on purpose?) earlier this year.

As for the "Naga Jolokia" I think that's just an imprecise permutation of the names for this variety of pepper. My impression was that "Naga Morich" was Bengali, and "Bhut Jolokia" was Hindi, so mixing the two crosses linguistic barriers.

Though Assam India and Bangladesh are extremely close geographically, so who knows?

 

[smariotti]

The selection might happen like this (brutally simplified): Imagine Aa grows better in a stony mountain range, AA better in a desert oasis and aa better in a clay area. You will have a selection in the various areas but still have the same variety. It's like the Darwin finches on the Galapagos islands.




Now imagine what happens if you grow them all in the same environment for let's say 20 generations. Would the four "strains" converge again due to the circumstances and new selection? Would there be let's say a AJ Jolokia and a Naga Potawie in 20 years?

So what we're saying is that the genome (number and sequence of genes) for the Naga Morich, Dorset Naga, Bhut Jolokia and Bih Jolokia is the same, and that these varieties are variations within that gene sequence based on naturally (or deliberately, as in the Dorset Naga) selected alleles over a bunch of generations. We're saying that the variations in peppers are just the expression or suppression of genes among a common set?

That makes sense to me. Is that right?

At what point does the actual genome of the plant change? Hybridization? Random mutations?

 

[Armadillo]

So what we're saying is that the genome (number and sequence of genes) for the Naga Morich, Dorset Naga, Bhut Jolokia and Bih Jolokia is the same, and that these varieties are variations within that gene sequence based on naturally (or deliberately, as in the Dorset Naga) selected alleles over a bunch of generations. We're saying that the variations in peppers are just the expression or suppression of genes among a common set?

That makes sense to me. Is that right?

At what point does the actual genome of the plant change? Hybridization? Random mutations?

That's my guess. I'm not a biologist though.

 

[PepperLover]

nice pods

 

[Skydiver]

this is going to be a great comparison year for me...hope you gents don't get bored with my findings...

AJ, I don't think there's any danger of anyone taking anything you say for granted.

You're like a Guru and a Sifu and "that guy" (everyone knows a "that guy". "that guy" is like THE source of info on something, and they all rock) all wrapped up in one.

 

[caroltlw]

So, what's up with the number of flowers per node mentioned earlier? Do they all have multiples or is there something not chinese about some varieties of the naga/bhut collective?

 

[POTAWIE]

Here's a bit of info including some on flowers per node

http://www.fiery-foods.com/index.ph...e-jolokia&catid=92:pepper-profiles&Itemid=149

"As also typical for the chinense species, there's more than one flower per node. While the Assamese growers (Bih Jolokia) as well as the Chile Pepper Institute (Bhut Jolokia) report two flowers per node for their respective plants, we found clusters of up to five on the Naga Morich test plants we grew in our Pepperworld greenhouse from original "Chileman" seeds, as well as on Bhut Jolokia plants (grown from CPI seed). Depending upon the source, certain calyx differences are evident, and also in fruit shape. Growing the various peppers next season will hopefully bring more insight, so some updates in the future are possible.

The elongated fruits are 5 to 8.5 cm in length, 2.5 to 3 cm in diameter (at shoulder), with an undulating surface. We noticed that depending on the source, fruit shape also seems to differ a bit. Fruits mature from green to bright red. The CPI reported that the constriction between calyx and pedicel found in C. chinense was present on the Bhut Jolokia fruit, but the penetrance of this trait was reduced."

 

[AlabamaJack]

AJ, I don't think there's any danger of anyone taking anything you say for granted.

You're like a Guru and a Sifu and "that guy" (everyone knows a "that guy". "that guy" is like THE source of info on something, and they all rock) all wrapped up in one.

thanks for the vote of confidence Skydiver, but there are many others on this site that are much more learned in the world of pepperdom than I am...I have learned a great deal from those folks...and one of them made a post right above me...

I will tell you this...I honestly believe that if you have a question about anything to do with peppers, someone on THP knows the answer...

 

[smariotti]

I will tell you this...I honestly believe that if you have a question about anything to do with peppers, someone on THP knows the answer...

And there's SO much to learn. When I first found this place, I figured I knew a bit about hot peppers. Now, after a few months of participation I'm pretty sure I know next to nothing about peppers.

 

[Pepper Ridge Farm]

I just went and checked my plants and I have 5 flowers/fruit per node on both the Naga Morich and Bhut Jolokia plants. Really pretty site when 5 chilis are growing out the same node. I prefered the Bhuts over the nagas last year but all are great. Have a few Bih Jolokia growing this season to compare, right now only 2 or 3 flowers per node on the Bih.

 

[bigt]

I just went and checked my plants and I have 5 flowers/fruit per node on both the Naga Morich and Bhut Jolokia plants. Really pretty site when 5 chilis are growing out the same node. I prefered the Bhuts over the nagas last year but all are great. Have a few Bih Jolokia growing this season to compare, right now only 2 or 3 flowers per node on the Bih.

Cappy, did they start right out with 5 per node, or grow into it? I have a few Bhuts and it looks like some nodes are trying to get to 5, but most are 2 or 3. All are at the very early stage of blooming.

 

[Pepper Ridge Farm]

They all flowered and started to set fruit about the same general time per node. Not every node has 5 flowers just some, and not every flower becomes a pod either. Pretty when everything goes right.

 

[bigt]

Thanks - I'll be checking mine everyday now.

 

[Slinter]

I have been growing naga/bhut for over 3 years and feel they are all the same with different names. I have had every shape and size pepper, leaf, plant imaginable from pure seed I got way back when. Just like any other pepper, the pods can vary dramatically from plant to plant.

 

[Slinter]

Here is all from the same plant for an idea of what im talking about. Naga morich

 

[caroltlw]

Not every node has 5 flowers just some, and not every flower becomes a pod either. Pretty when everything goes right.

I was wondering about that. I noticed some of my red habs managed to set 3 peppers per node - anything greater than that has dropped off.
What's the most you've seen set on one node?

 

[POTAWIE]

I think 5 is usually the limit but its hard to say since sometimes the nodes are so close that you can't tell what's one or two.

 

[caroltlw]

I think 5 is usually the limit but its hard to say since sometimes the nodes are so close that you can't tell what's one or two.

Maybe some day I shall have such "problems".

 

[bigt]

Some Naga pics taken today...

Dorset Naga ..... crowded node

Bhut Jolokia node

another Bhut packing them in

Bih Jolokia - this may set a personal record for most pods, it looks like it will be in the hundreds. This picture really doesn't do it justice, I'll take another when they start turning red.