Bhut Bih or Naga?

[smariotti]

The first pepper I tried to grow was a Bhut Jolokia. Ordered it from Hirt's Gardens and it got too hot over the weekend (I'm growing at work) and dried out and died.

I tried to re-order but they were out of Bhut Jolokias, so I gotta Naga Morich (two actually) instead and have been growing those at work. Both are doing great.

Now, here's the thing I'm confused about. According to wikipedia and the casual observer, Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia, and Naga Morich are just different names for the same pepper. The super hot world record holder pepper from Assam India. In India they call it the "Bhut Jolokia" or "Bih Jolokia" and in Bangladesh they call it the "Naga Morich." Or so it goes.

I notice that people more illuminated in the ways of peppers talk about these names as three distinct varieties of peppers.

So this is my question: What's the difference? Originating region? Plant height? Fruit size? Hotness? Taste?

I know that the Dorset Naga is a variety that was developed in the UK from the original Indian pepper, and understand why this one is called out separately from the others. Can someone more in the know than myself shed a little light on this for us budding (heh!) pepper heads?

 

[POTAWIE]

I've grown most types and I never noticed much difference in the leaves, but the pod shapes and number of pods per node were noticably different for me and some seemed to stay orange and some quick to go red. I couldn't tell a lot of difference in the taste or heat levels although some really smelt better than others

 

[Mr. Burns]

I find this to be very confusing as well. I am certainly no expert, but this is how I understand it. (Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong):

They all originated from the same source and are still considered to be the same species, but different regions and growing conditions can produce different traits. So, as a population becomes isolated, the traits that help it thrive in that particular region become more prolific. As you probably know, this is called divergent evolution and is a basic premise of evolutionary theory.

That being said, they can still be the same species (same genetic code) and traditionally express different characteristics (different genes within the code being outwardly expressed).


Here is a link to frontal agritech's explanation, they were the first (and for a long time, only) company to export these peppers.

http://www.frontalagritech.co.in/products/bihjolokia_gen.htm

If anyone else has any other insight I'd love to hear it!

Thanks!

 

[AlabamaJack]

OK Gents...here are pictures of the Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia, Dorset Naga, and Naga Morich.

All seeds were started the same day, and all have received exactly the same treatment (water, fertilize, grow method, etc.) They have been outside for about a month and have shed their big leaves for the most part.

Containers are marked...if you cant read them, they are in alphabetical order left to right Bhut Jolokia (Pablo), Bih Jolokia (Hippy), Dorset Naga (Reimer - please don't shoot me), Naga Morich (from last years crop where seeds came from Philliperv)

here are leaves that were taken from the same general area of each plant...again, alphabetical left to right....

I have two more post to make...first one will contain closer pictures of each plant...then the second post will be macro shots of the flowers...

 

[AlabamaJack]

Bhut Jolokia...

Bih Jolokia

Dorset Naga

Naga Morich

pictures of the flowers next post

 

[AlabamaJack]

Bhut Jolokia Flower

Bih Jolokia Flower

Dorset Naga Flower (and yes, I know they are aphids there too - they will die in a little while after I finish posting)

Naga Morich Flower - aphids here too...

the only difference I have seen so far in the plants are, the Bihs are producing fastest followed by the Naga Morich but the Bhut Jolokia is the tallest of them all.

time to go kill aphids

 

[JungleRain]

so would it be fair to say that their Genotype (genetic make up) is basically the same because they are all the same plant, however their phenotypes (outward appearance) differ due to environmental factors!!! i.e.. One adapted to colder regions, one to hot humid regions, one to a region with higher altitude and another to dryer regions? etc etc

 

[chilliman]

This might help..
Here are some pics I took of a present i received the other day...

I think the most evil has to be the dorset... it seems to have more oily placenta.

BHUT

Morich

 

[POTAWIE]

I've found that pod shape can be very inconsistant with these types even on the same plant
Here's some that I grew a few years ago but I can't remember what's what anymore

Early pods:Naga Morich, Dorset Naga, and Bangladesh Nagas(bottom)

Big Bangladesh Naga in front of a Naga Morich

 

[bigt]

Very, very nice pictures AJ, C-man and Potawie. This is turning into a fascinating thread, I plan on adding to to it with a few shots myself.

 

[Silver_Surfer]

Great informative thread and pics everyone.

One obvious difference not mentioned yet; the Bhut/Bih have 6 petaled flowers, while the Morich/Dorsets have only 5.

I've only grown and tasted the Morich so far and if the others are any hotter I'll need to switch from a milk chaser to heavy cream.

 

[AlabamaJack]

One obvious difference not mentioned yet; the Bhut/Bih have 6 petaled flowers, while the Morich/Dorsets have only 5.

you know...I didn't even notice that last night when I was taking the pics...of course after I saw aphids, nothing much else was on my mind except KILL APHIDS with extreme prejudice...


I will have to look at the Bhuts again, one of the petals is actually forked and it looks like two...but if the other flowers have 6 petals,

that would make sense sense to me since it is a Bhut and Bih Jolokia

and the Dorset Naga and Naga Morich have 5 petals...I think the Dorset started with the Naga Morich seeds anyway didn't it?

 

[POTAWIE]

Amounts of petals is probably not a good indicator, since I've seen different amounts of petals on different flowers on the same plant

 

[ABurningMouth]

this is going to be a great comparison year for me...hope you gents don't get bored with my findings...

Are you kidding? This is what we live for.

 

[Ratdz]

This thread is awesome!
Please keep us updated with any other info/insights you might have.
Thanks!

 

[Armadillo]

The details get a bit technical, but remember that in general a plant has two copies of each gene, one on each of a paired set of chomosomes. (Actually, some genes have multiple copies on a single chomosome, so a plant has more than two copies of the gene). In order to make the sperm found in pollen or the eggs found in the ovules, the chromosome number is halved (meiosis), taking one chromosome from each set, more or less at random.

Now, suppose the plant had version A of a gene on one of its paired chromosomes and version a on the other. Thus its genetics could be represented as Aa. But it could happen that it self-pollinates with a pollen grain that got the A copy, onto an ovule that also got the A copy. Thus the offspring will be AA (after the sperm and egg merge in fertilization), genetically different. (Just as easily, the offspring could be aa, as well as of course Aa like the parent).

...

Now, the more often a plant has identical copies of a gene on both chromosomes (called being homozygous), the less potential there is for genetic reshuffling. Plants that breed true tend to be homozygous at a lot of locations, whereas what we most commonly refer to as "hybrids" are heterozygous at a lot of locations (and thus tricky to breed true from seed, unless you instead cross the two parent varieties each time you want to get seeds). But there's always going to be some degree of heterozygosity, and that's where you can get genetic change even without crossing "distinct" varieties.

The selection might happen like this (brutally simplified): Imagine Aa grows better in a stony mountain range, AA better in a desert oasis and aa better in a clay area. You will have a selection in the various areas but still have the same variety. It's like the Darwin finches on the Galapagos islands.

so would it be fair to say that their Genotype (genetic make up) is basically the same because they are all the same plant, however their phenotypes (outward appearance) differ due to environmental factors!!! i.e.. One adapted to colder regions, one to hot humid regions, one to a region with higher altitude and another to dryer regions? etc etc

Now imagine what happens if you grow them all in the same environment for let's say 20 generations. Would the four "strains" converge again due to the circumstances and new selection? Would there be let's say a AJ Jolokia and a Naga Potawie in 20 years?

 

[POTAWIE]

I used to get seeds(mostly tomatos) from seedsavers and although many people offer the same seeds, they can differ quite a bit depending on the geography, soil, weather, growing tecniques etc. Because of this adaptation in the plants its often best to find a seed source which is closest to your own growing environment and label your seeds with the original source and not just common names eg. Trinidad Scorpion-BT(Butch T)

 

[Binganero]

you know...I didn't even notice that last night when I was taking the pics...of course after I saw aphids, nothing much else was on my mind except KILL APHIDS with extreme prejudice...


I will have to look at the Bhuts again, one of the petals is actually forked and it looks like two...but if the other flowers have 6 petals,

that would make sense sense to me since it is a Bhut and Bih Jolokia

and the Dorset Naga and Naga Morich have 5 petals...I think the Dorset started with the Naga Morich seeds anyway didn't it?

Is this characteristic logically um... deterministic???

In other words, if a plant has flowers with both 6 petals and 5 petals, can it be determined that this is a Bhut/Bih?? Are only bhut/bihs capable of producing 6-petaled flowers... or does it go the other way, that since some have 5 petals, it is a Dorset/Morich because only they are capable of this?

Or am I speaking out of my bhut?

Thanks.

Bing

 

[POTAWIE]

I don't think that number of petals is consistent enough for identification purposes. Some will have 5, some 6 or maybe 7, even on the same plant and not only on bhuts

 

[AlabamaJack]

I am not well enough versed in peppers yet to answer the question but Potawie is and I will go with what he says...

 

[wurge]

Ok. So what is a naga jolokia then?