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Brain Strain vs TS morouga

Cappy I only grew Brain Strain once and it was Ronnie who gave me seeds in 2011 and he only gave me about 30. Last year was the first time I grew them. A guy named John gave a few in 2010 and it grew out to be chocolate hab. I have never gotten any seeds from Candice. Only person who ever gave me seeds in trade last year from OZ was Grant and he never gave me any Brain Strain ever. As for New Mexico Scorpion that was Dave De Witts Publicity team called the Garrity Group that came up with that. If you go back on forums you will see I broke all ties with Dave De Witt after he did that. I have copies of the E mails between him and the marketing firm with him coming up with this idea. I am against anyone giving a pepper a new name unless they can prove they created their own unigue strain. And Cappy I dont trade for seeds usually. Last year I traded with Chris and Grant and it was not for Brain Strain. I have E mails proving this. Or you can ask them yourself. I will give you a breakdown of what got tested.

Moruga Scorpion-Seeds can be traced back to Christopher Philips-Purchased originally in 2009 from Jukka

7 Pot Jonah-I grew from two sources Neal and Semillas. Seeds supplied to Institute were a mix of both since they were the same.

7 Pot Douglah-Seeds I got from Neal and Semillas. I understand Semillas got from Chris. Seeds supplied to CPI were from Neals stock I grew in 2009 and 2010..

Trinidad Scorpion-Supplied by CARDI and me. My seeds were a mix of Butch T that I got from Neal and grew out and Pepper Lover. I gave them Judy's seeds too because I had most of mine already packaged up for retail sales.

Bhut Jolokia was supplied by CPI.

And I don't lie Cappy. People who know me know I dont hype anything. I may have said some stupid things on these web forums in the past and argued but so have you. I may have even said things that were incorrect but when corrected I humble myself and admit I made a mistake. You can cry all you want because I don't care about your little Kingdom on here. You may be a big shot here but in the chile industry your just another hobbyist. Dont strain your brain Cappy.
 
i think it's time to create some cross and remove the "scorpion" and "trinidad" tag! ;)

Lets call it a Rougemont Moose pepper ;)

just need to have a pepper with antler

Anyway i love the brain like shape of peppers with or without the stinger...

i think Cappy here is the best ambasador of the "brain strain" (no matter what was the original pepper use...) and probably since he breed them over and over he gave and replicate is best brain looking peppers they have something unique now which in the long run will be a unique strain with a common ancestor.... viva evolutione!!!!
 
Pepper Ridge Farm said:
Well I don't believe you one bit Jim you will lie cheat and steal your way into the record book. I know what you did switching 7 Pod BS seeds and claiming them as your own Moruga Scorpion not to be confused with the Morouga Blend. I cannot prove you got them from Candices plants and I can't get her to come on here and tell her story. So if you see no difference between the Moruga Scorpion/Brain Strain is everybody now just supposed to lump these two strains together? Yes I never created a pepper but neither did you. What happened to the New Mexico Scorpion pepper why wasn't it tested?
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Cappy it is not that I won't come on here, I have been extremely busy, I don't even really have time now. You emailed me yesterday 3.30am my time and then again around 9am begging me to come on here and back you up. I had 2 hours of broken sleep because I have a teething baby so was extremely tired and cranky and I also had to get my 4yr old son ready and to school by 9am and then have a meeting with the principal. Then after that I had the house to clean and 15kg of chillies to start processing into products.

Ok my story- you gave me seeds a year or two ago. the seeds you gave me were a mix of 3 or 4 different strains if I remember correctly, the most being Brain Strain and Morugas. I think you did this A. Because you thought I was going to sell them so you prevented this by mixing them or B. You can't tell the difference betweena Moruga and a Brain Strain so this way you could say you gave me both.Now I grew them an out of 20 plants they all looked the same. I sent photos to you and asked you which strain you thought they were... you couldn't give me an answer or any tips on how to tell the difference. So I named them Brain Strain at a guess. I asked for your permission to sell the dried pods and you said yes but you didn't want me selling seeds. I have never sold or given away seeds, and have told you in a pm that I didn't give any to Jim and then you ask on here again. I had other people asking but as the part of the field I grew on last year had some sort of soil disease I said I would not give any seeds away as I didn't want to spread it.

Now I have no idea why you think that Jim would use your seeds and then rename them. For starters he has always said to me (when I posted pics on FB) that he thought they are exactly the same as Morugas.I have also heard lots of others say that they can not tell the difference.
Honestly I think you are just upset that you have spent money and time on Trademarking the name Brain Strain and are now upset that it will never be a record breaker or well known. Sorry if this sounds harsh but thats the only thing I can think of as to why you are so upset of Jim getting the Moruga tested as the highest.

jim has doe a lot for the chilli industry and I respect him and speak with him regularly. If it wasn't for him organising and donating his seeds then we would never know how hot these chillies are.
Please don't come back attacking me, I really don't have time for "arguments" on here as I have a chilli festival in 3 weeks that I am preparing for and I really can't be bothered.
 
Don't really want to fuel debate but I don't see how DNA testing can show anything except that the Morouga and Brain Strains might share a common ancestor or 2 or 4??

It may even show 99.9% identical DNA between the two but even that 0.1% would still be enough for a distinct variation to be possibly present between them.

I would share basically the same DNA as my brothers and sisters however we are all quite different people both in looks and in idiosyncrasies.

I would then ask why is it so unbelievable that the brain strain is indeed a (even .01%) genetic variation of a chilli which possibly shares the same ancestors as the Morouga and what does anyone get out of possibly proving 99.9% of the DNA is the same, except to say that they are more then likely from the same common genetics originally (but from 3??4??9???100 Generations ago????)
 
Chris when I told Danise you obtained your seeds from Tobago her eyes got wide. Because DNA shows the Moruga Scorpion very distant from the 7 Pots and the Trinidad Scorpion (aka Butch T). So you know how they show on those science shows how any Island by itself can have species that are found nowhere else kind of like the Galapagos. Well I guess thats what happened with the Moruga. I am not a DNA expert just relaying what was discussed at conference.
 
Also not a DNA expert but that's cool that it is distant from the 7 pots and scorpions. Chris, you said that they claimed it was a strain they "were working on" I wonder if that means its been hybridized a few times?

The DNA tests give us a good idea of how close of ancestors they are yes. If two pepper seeds came off the same plant and grew pods their anestors would be extremely close. Brothers and sisters are not necessarily too close to differentiate between in genetics. Identical twins are essentially genetically identical, but there is a chance (although extremely extremely slim) that a brother and sister inherited exact opposite genomes from their parents. They will still be 99.9% similar since the bulk of the DNA is either useless repetition or encodes the essential genes that make us human. There still are still plenty of dissimilarities in that final margin of difference that we can evaluate.

All peppers' DNA will be over 99% similar just like all humans. It's that last little bit that they see changes in and evaluate from there. Two plants of the same strain will show that they are close enough together to have the same parents but plants with a more distant common ancestor will be on the other end of the gradient. If anyone has more information on how they evaluate the DNA tests for plants and study them I'd appreciate getting an article to read since I just have a basic understanding.
 
I am a little familiar with like species being separted by a physical barrier and being able to evolve into similar looking but genetically different species. It's believed that it happens with tarantulas. It just so happens that DNA testing is being done right now with several species from the same genus that were harvested in New Mexico and Arizona.

The chance that the same thing has happened with the Trinidad peppers is totally believable. Very cool. Thanks for posting that tidbit of info Mr. Duffy.
 
POTAWIE said:
Is it the same as the infinity too, they look similar. I've also had Trinidad scorpion-SR look quite the same. My guess is they all came from a not quite fully stablilized variety(Maybe 99%+) and those who grow a lot of seeds, or got lucky, ended up with another variant that comes up less than 1%
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I grew all three last season from different sources and couldn't tell the difference heat wise. I would definitely put all three types in the same class. There was very little difference among them.
 
will someone just do a dna test on both of these one from chris and one from cappy and just finnish this debate its the only way it will show if theyre both the same or not.
 
xcsports said:
will someone just do a dna test on both of these one from chris and one from cappy and just finnish this debate its the only way it will show if theyre both the same or not.
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Unfortunately Its not quite that simple. Unless someone supplies some outside funding, a University would likely not have the incentive or time to do such a test. They may have done similar tests on known landraces to help determine or gain knowledge on how chiles have moved from place to place over time(by humans), changed (or had been selected) over time, and how closely "related" the different landraces are (which may help learn/determine origins of migration, etc.).
 
Is anyone else growing both Brain Strains and TS Morouga right now? I'm growing both and they look completely different... not sure why a DNA test would be necessary. This is only my first year growing them, so I will pay attention and take notes as they progress and produce fruit. But so far - completely different plants without a doubt. Anyone else?
 
Yep I be growing both. Too early in the game though. I'll be posting plenty of pics if everything grows right in my glog. Got a ways to go though.
 
I currently grow
Brain strain,
Red and Yellow Morouga
and i also have some morouga blend that poped out last week (dont know if they will reach maturity...)

be i can help you guys later on (this summer) to bring pictures and give my opinion.

i also have 2 butch t giving different texture pods one very smooth like a pumpkin hab and the other one more bumpy and rough...
cant wait to compare them at maturity! (although i have a very small pod of my butch T already turning color (was the first pod of the plant... dwarf sizepod (about a dime in size) will it still be hot?
 
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