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Capsaicin vs. pain neurotransmitters - Calling all chile alchemists

I have the emu oil and evco and all the lab stuff and the scales. All I need is the heat. Shall we go to PM and work out the details?
 
Sounds good~
 
do you mix it by weight or by volume? im still confused by this... firehouse crystals were very abrupt in their answer simply saying mix it with equal parts of something and it cuts the shu... but equal parts by weight of everclear vs equal parts by weight of oil is gonna be two different outcomes... equal weights of oil to everclear is gonna have way less oil than everclear by volume...... but with crystals being a solid, the reverse issue happens if going by volume... cant get an accurate measure of crystals by volume with it being a solid...
 
What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead? Weight is weight, volume is different. A pound of lead is the size of a pound of buttter? a pound of feathers is....i dunno...two microwaves???? That is the idea anyway~
 
Ideally, I would mix using a milligrams of active per milliliter of carrier type of calculation. Similar to the way nicotine solutions are mixed for eliquids. PG and VG are very different in viscosity but it all works out in the end.
 
salsalady said:
What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead? Weight is weight, volume is different. A pound of lead is the size of a pound of buttter? a pound of feathers is....i dunno...two microwaves???? That is the idea anyway~
Click to expand...
 

but thats my point and the basis of my confusion... a gram of crystals is a gram of crystals... but a gram of solvent is going to change the final outcome depending on the solvent used... 50/50 crystals and everclear by weight is going to have a different outcome than 50/50 crystals and oil by weight... 
 
example being (not a solvent but the heaviest liquid for example purposes... so lets just say its a solvent)  a drop of liquid mercury can weigh a gram... adding that to a gram of crystals is not going to cut the crystals in half to 8 million shu.. it simply doesnt have enough volume to do so despite the equal weight same applies to oil or alcohol as a solvent... a gram of alcohol is gonna have much more volume than a gram of coconut oil or emu oil so an equal weight of everclear to crystals vs equal weight of coconut oil to crystals, the alcohol will dilute the shu far more than the oil because of the extra volume involved...
 
DWB said:
Ideally, I would mix using a milligrams of active per milliliter of carrier type of calculation. Similar to the way nicotine solutions are mixed for eliquids. PG and VG are very different in viscosity but it all works out in the end.
Click to expand...
 
true... that is amuch better solution than firehouses bullshit answer... mg per milliliter sounds right... so it isnt equal parts by any measurement, it would be mg per milliliter...i dont see how else it could work properly with the density differences in the materials... thanks dwb... that works much better in my mind..
 
my only issue with that is when does the 50/50kick in to make that 1 mil be only 8 million over 16million? do the crystals have a melting point? perhaps turning it to liquid can even out the issue to mix 5050
 
 
without turning it to liquid, i guess one could use displacement to measure that... i would assume 16million scovilles added to 1 mil of solvent would half when you displace enough of the solvent to equal 2mil...
 
does that sound acceptable or am i missing something?
 
After a while it makes my head hurt. For my use in this project, SHU is pretty much irrelevant and merely a point of reference. My current goal is to duplicate a breathtakingly expensive pharmaceutical product for mini-bucks and hope for an appropriate result.
 
I've looked at msds types of documents for capsaicin and the crystals do have a melting point that isn't all that high. Around 145° F.. Seems like capsaicin is soluble in many substances such as certain oils, ethanol, chloroform and ether.
 
Well if you know the specific gravity of the solvent you can calculate it too. For example Castor oil is similar to Emu oil in that it is harvested from an animal, so might be in the same weight category. Castor oil has a specific gravity of 954,14 kilograms per cubic metre (kg/m³), which can also be written as 954.14 mg/ml. If 954,14 is 92% of the total (with capsaicin) then 100% is 1037,11. Which means you need to add 82,97 mg of capsaicin to a ml of castor oil to get an 8% capsaicin ratio.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, math was a long time ago. To guessitmate the specific gravity of the Emu oil you could try weighing a mililiter of the stuff.
 
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doing a little research on that Qutenza stuff...is it really $1700????  For 2 patches?????  :eek:
 
b3rnd said:
Well if you know the specific gravity of the solvent you can calculate it too. For example Castor oil is similar to Emu oil in that it is harvested from an animal, so might be in the same weight category. Castor oil has a specific gravity of 954,14 kilograms per cubic metre (kg/m³), which can also be written as 954.14 mg/ml. If 954,14 is 92% of the total (with capsaicin) then 100% is 1037,11. Which means you need to add 82,97 mg of capsaicin to a ml of castor oil to get an 8% capsaicin ratio.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, math was a long time ago. To guessitmate the specific gravity of the Emu oil you could try weighing a mililiter of the stuff.
Click to expand...
 

The math does become a pain after so long. Thank goodness for spreadsheets.
 
For some things I just do a 'ball park" estimate of a gram for a milliliter. I imagine I have emu oil sg figures somewhere in my files but in this case, I want everything precise. I'll do the precision weights of everything. Especially since I have two different types of emu oil with very different properties and will be using the pure capsaicin. I want to make certain everything is exact.
 
Project Defunctionalization  is underway.
 
For the first batch, I used extra virgin coconut oil (s.g. 924 mg/ml) with 16 million SHU 100% pure capsaicin crystals at 8.42% or 1,347,200 SHU. Combine 2 ml coconut oil plus 170 mg capsaicin in 6 ml test tubes. I made two doses or a total of 4 ml. We estimate the treatment should require 1 to 1½ ml.
 
Melt point of coconut oil is 76° F. Melt point of 95% S.A. synthetic capsaicin is 144-149° F. At 140° these 100% natural crystals appear to be pretty well dissolved. A dipped needle wiped on tongue says yep, it's a pretty potent brew.  I'll let them rest in an 82° cabinet overnight and see how they look in the morning.
 
It's supposed to be a rainy day tomorrow so it will be a good day to lay on my belly for an hour with a patch of this beautifully clear superhot oil painted on my back. Haha, this is the supergeneric version of the $900 prescription capsaicin pain patch and I don't even have to go to the doctor and lay on my belly in his office for an hour.
 
 
Maybe. How much does pepperspray cost?
 
It should cost me less than a dollar per dose to make my replication of this pharmaceutical pain patch.
 
I think pepperspray may be your best alternative should you ever suffer chronic pain. Go for it. I hope it works for you.
 
Here's an interesting and unexpected finding. The melting point of the coconut oil was lowered to somewhere below 70° F with the capsaicin in solution. The exact point is unknown at this time.
 
One thing that didn't surprise me is the Pure Evil capsaicin crystals from salsalady remain in solution perfectly.
 
Edit: Bad info here. The melt point of the coconut oil was not significantly changed. I left the test tubes in the cooker overnight. Even though the probe measuring ambient air in the cooker said 70° F, the oil mixture in the tubes had apparently not reached that point. Either that or a reheating cycle changed it again.
 
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