Carolina Reaper Plant Issue..

ELCouz said:
 
IMO I would use the well water pH is good. Pepper plants like a slight acidic soil/water 5.8-6.5
 
Many people pH down their tap water because it's around 7.5 or more.
 
Less than 7 for tap water means it's leeching stuff from pipes (lead,copper,etc)
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, but well water is especially notorious for high levels of dissolved and undissolved solids.  These aren't a good combination with fertilizers.  Certain elements can bond to other elements in a fertilizer.  Calcium is one of them.  Well water won't give you a benefit from the extra calcium, but it can rob your fertilizers of effectiveness. (or worse, cause lockout from high EC)
 
DWB said:
Sorry for the hijack but there's some interesting discussion about water pH in here. What is the ideal water pH for pepper plants grown in pots with potting soil?
 
My choices are 6.0 direct from the well or neutralized to 7.6 to feed the house. I can make any pH in between by blending water. Half 6.0 + half 7.6 = 6.8 but that's pretty much a pain in the butt. Being a lazyman, it's nicer to water the pots with a hose from one source or the other. I have done some experimenting with one water source vs. the other but I really don't notice a difference.
 
Given I want the healthiest plants and a great yield of the spiciest of pods, what would be the best pH water to use? Is blending in jugs worth my while?
Click to expand...
 
 
around 6.5 is the best you could hope for. 
Soil is usually naturally slightly acidic.
The problem comes after time and continued watering of media in a confined space (pot) with high PH water. The soil will buffer it for awhile, but the additives that are added to the water to raise the water PH will build up over time gradually leading to rising PH.
 
I used to muck around setting the PH of my water (i used citric acid). Gets old quickly when you need to mix 100L or so of water a week...
nowadays I just use the garden hose (water PH 8+) and add a small sprinkle of elemental / flowers of sulphur to my pots every now and again.
Sulphur eats(dissolves) calcium which is added to the water to keep our teeth and bones strong and to raise the Ph so it dosent rust the pipes/taps.
 
solid7 said:
 
Yeah, but well water is especially notorious for high levels of dissolved and undissolved solids.  These aren't a good combination with fertilizers.  Certain elements can bond to other elements in a fertilizer.  Calcium is one of them.  Well water won't give you a benefit from the extra calcium, but it can rob your fertilizers of effectiveness. (or worse, cause lockout from high EC)
Click to expand...
 
 
 
My choices are 6.0 direct from the well or neutralized to 7.6 to feed the house.
Click to expand...
 
Depending what kind of filtration system... I suggest he test the TDS content of his water from both well and after "treatment" aka tap water.
 
If he's just neutralizing the pH like he says for the tap water.... both might be high
 
ELCouz said:
 
 
Depending what kind of filtration system... I suggest he test the TDS content of his water from both well and after "treatment" aka tap water.
 
If he's just neutralizing the pH like he says for the tap water.... both might be high
Click to expand...
 
Unless it's RO, there is no filtration that will help with dissolved solids.  Other than than this, you're absolutely correct.
 
TDS from the well is 30 ppm. TDS after neutralizing by passing through the tank of limestone is 105 ppm. After 15 micron filtration, 100 PPM. After RO, 5 ppm.
 
Dear my friends solid7, nzchilli
 
In fact I did try my best to avoid talking about off-topic things.  We are here to cure that reaper, right?
 
If ALL fertilizer are chemical then human body is also chemical, right? Coz it consists of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, blah blah... Then every living thing in this whole world is chemical, right? coz it break down into chemical element. It's not that simple.  :rolleyes:
 
If I did response to your reply more, trust me we will have several months - years to debate. 
You also know there are something smaller than chemical element, right?  
 
 
nzchili said:
 
Would be interested to see any info relating to these other "organic molecules" which you say plants uptake. (im not doubting you, im generally interested in learning). They are obviously not a requirement though as a plant in hydro for example would not get them. And if it did. Its not organic.
Click to expand...
 
There are a lot of things. You may want to take a look at amino acid first, so you have basic foundation to understand something more complex.  :party:
 
lek said:
You also know there are something smaller than chemical element, right?  
 
Click to expand...
 
As usual, you can't cut through the bullshit, and get to the point.  This is another case of your magical fairyland cures, which you only speak of cryptically.  Most of the time, the people in this forum are laymen, or growers of a fairly modest skill level. (that may even be flattering)  
.
Plants don't survive on air.  You've got to feed something, in place of "chemical fertilizers".  So what is it?
.
We might be able to agree on something, if not for the fact that you seem to want to be some sort of a sagacious enigma - and you are - if only in your own mind.  Just know if you want to keep giving creepy-sounding, new age, weirdo posts, when people want simple advice, you're likely to get called out - alot.  Especially when you like to drop that stupid 2 pointing fingers emoji - like you've just schooled everyone.  It's embarrassing to have to see a person who is struggling with issues, put themselves out like that.
 
^ LOL

In regards to PH the optimal value is dependent on the plants ability to absorb nutrients (dare I say.. stardust?).

So if the plant can absorb/use most nutrients it requires efficiently at 6.5 for example then this is what you should aim for.

Different PH values favour the plants ability to take up different elements so we aim for the happy medium.

Oh, but make sure you only use nutes that are made up from elements that contain only organic atoms..
 
Thanks for all the replies...very interesting! 
icon_smile_biggrinking.gif

 
Still waiting for the soil analysis kit to come by...
 
Over the years I've seen hundreds of topics started by growers about this issue, posted this awhile back:
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
I've seen hundreds of pix with wrinkled, crinkled or shriveled and yellowing..... Try these:

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/47658-wrinkles-leaves-diagnosis-assistance-por-favor/
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/16834-distorted-curled-leaves/
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/54475-distortedwrinkled-leaves-on-carolina-reaper/
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/32173-is-this-what-people-call-crinkle-leaf/
 
If you read through the replies you'll note many different opinions as to reason with just as many solutions to the issue. My research has turned up one central theme, it's very common with C. chinense. Here's a pic of mine from last year....

IMG_0712_zpschlfylxz.jpg

 
 
Two things, you'll note it didn't stop fruit production but I was able to "corral" it with Witch's Brew... https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=Calcium%20Acetate%20witch's%20brew&oq=Calcium%20Acetate%20witch's%20brew&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS592US593&aqs=chrome..69i57.7351j0j7
 
Edit:  Forgot, the plant is TRINIDAD SCORPION CHOCOLATE from Cross Country Nurseries and here's a pic of the ripe/harvested fruit.


IMG_0788_zps2glmevek.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Another was posted shortly after mine:
 
King Naga variation, an observation of two specimens

As noted, there is a lot of growers who have used witch's/witches brew to alleviate this condition, YMMV.
 
 
 
Little update on the nutes...
 
Got my TDS meter and soil test kit early :) yay!
 
 
City water (out of the tap):
 
pH: 7.81
TDS: 81 ppm
 
-------------------------------
 
Nutes water (specified earlier post, 0.7ml/0.7ml/0.7ml):
 
pH: 6.21
TDS: 1010 ppm
 
Is the TDS too high for the soil?
 
 
I will test the soil and report back ... It might take few hours.
 
 
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
Over the years I've seen hundreds of topics started by growers about this issue, posted this awhile back:
 
 
Another was posted shortly after mine:
 
King Naga variation, an observation of two specimens

As noted, there is a lot of growers who have used witch's/witches brew to alleviate this condition, YMMV.
 
 
Click to expand...
 
 
Note taken! Very interesting. I will try to see if I can get the ingredients to make Calcium Acetate... I wonder why this stuff is so expensive when easy to make? What's the catch?
 
 
Thanks again guys!!
Laurent
 
ELCouz said:
City water (out of the tap):
 
pH: 7.81
TDS: 81 ppm
 
-------------------------------
 
Nutes water (specified earlier post, 0.7ml/0.7ml/0.7ml):
 
pH: 6.21
TDS: 1010 ppm
 
Is the TDS too high for the soil?
 
I will try to see if I can get the ingredients to make Calcium Acetate... I wonder why this stuff is so expensive when easy to make? What's the catch?
Click to expand...
 
 
Ferts are expensive because that's business.  Truth be told, there doesn't need to be as many fertilizers in the world as there.  Much of it is marketing BS.  There is absolutely no need in the world for "veg" and "bloom" formulas, for instance, other than to satisfy the ignorance that we've long held.  (and because of that ignorance, companies would lose money for not offering the snake oil products)  
.
Personally, I've always found adding calcium acetate in the form of powdered eggshells and vinegar, mixed and stirred for about 20 days, then applied at a rate of 2 TBSP per gallon of water, to be sufficient.  I don't find it necessary to add magnesium - but some people believe that it's critical.  If you do, then you'll want to add dolomitic lime to vinegar, and let it brew for about a week. (stirring every day)
.
Your numbers on the TDS look good.  You're lucky to have such a low count in your water.  Keep the TDS between 1000 and 1200, and the PH between 6.0 and neutral, and you should be good to go.
.
I'd still recommend keeping the P in your nutes low. As low as possible without being zero, and never higher than either N or K.
 
You guys were right!!! (never said the opposite anyway ;) )...
 
Excess Nitrogen and Phosphorus. P is over by a mile. K is fine.
 
Soil pH is between 6 to 6.5.
 
Now...do you recommend a soil flush?
 
 
Click to zoom for more color details...
 
 
 
soiltest.jpg
 
So the first thing you do, is you flush that soil  about 5 or 6 times.  Either that, or just let a shower or hose run over it for an hour or so.
.
Immediately after, dose it properly with a proper nutrient content.  Make sure you get some calcium in there, after the flush.  It's gonna be water logged, so lots of air circulation...
.
 
 
solid7 said:
So the first thing you do, is you flush that soil  about 5 or 6 times.  Either that, or just let a shower or hose run over it for an hour or so.
.
Immediately after, dose it properly with a proper nutrient content.  Make sure you get some calcium in there, after the flush.  It's gonna be water logged, so lots of air circulation...
.
 
Click to expand...
 
 
Yes !!!
 
What could be done to prevent the P excess in the future?
 
I suspect the excess P coming from the regular water (phosphoric pH down when there is no nutes) after many watering...
 
Alternate between what? Sulfuric,Nitric, acetic acid?
 
The pH down for pools are just salt (sodium bisulfate) I don't think that's gonna help in the soil.
 
ELCouz said:
 
 
Yes !!!
 
What could be done to prevent the P excess in the future?
 
I suspect the excess P coming from the regular water (phosphoric pH down when there is no nutes) after many watering...
 
Alternate between what? Sulfuric,Nitric, acetic acid?
 
The pH down for pools are just salt (sodium bisulfate) I don't think that's gonna help in the soil.
Click to expand...
 
Excess P is almost always caused by your nutrient. Choose a better one.  But stay away from excess P in your PH down, also.  Somebody suggested citric acid.  Might be a good idea.  If you want to grow conventional, CNS17 Grow, or Dyna-Grow Foliage.  Both are 3-1-2, are single part formulas.  No mixing, no changing up in the grow cycle.  I'm an organic grower, but I'm not a tool - either of those are great for your purpose.  I have used the CNS17 for specific purposes, and grown some of my best plants with it.
.
As a bonus, let me just add, that with my water, the CNS17 grow PH comes out optimal, with no buffering.  Just in case that is worth something to you...
.
 
lek said:
it's not calcium deficiency symptoms.  LOL
Click to expand...
 
Hey, Professor Amino...  Plants in pots need calcium, whether they are presently deficient, or not.  Even more so, after a flush.  So a ready source of calcium has been suggested.
.
As I'm sure you know, a plant won't properly take up nitrogen, where calcium is deficient, or locked up.  I'm sure that you were about to say that, right after a hit and run comment, or two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top