CD's Offseason Season 2020-2021

BDASPNY · Dec 4, 2020

CaneDog said:
Sweet! Would be cool to see it. Now if I could just get couple calendars with beers and wings I'd be all set.

And hey, be sure to save a little room as I have at least a couple good jalap types I'm still planning to send your way

its not to late to ask Santa for those other calendars. :lol:

ill make sure to save plenty of space for all of those. :cheers:

CaneDog · Dec 4, 2020

I harvested my first and only (so far) variegated jalapeno pod this morning. I waited until I saw the first wrinkle to improve my chances for fully mature seeds. It had a good number of seeds in it for the size, about a dozen in a small pepper on a very small plant. Now that I have the seeds I'll transplant it into some better soil and I'll have two of these guys growing in tents OW.

Variegated Jalapeno pod and seeds

While I was at it I took a few quick picks of the darkest of my Jalapeno Zapotec x Purple Jalapeno F2 plants - this is the one that produces white flowers with a bright purple fringe. On a side note, 3 of my Tekne Dolmasi x Jalapeno Zapotec F2 recently sprouted, which will likely be the last additions to this year's off-season grow.

Under lights, the pods are very dark green and maybe a little black. Not sure how dark they'll be in real sun.

mattspeppers · Dec 4, 2020

Bumper crop on those Variegated Jalapenos, CD! Happy you had success with yours

HeatMiser · Dec 4, 2020

Nice you were able to get seeds from one of those variegated jalapenos CD. Hopefully that will lead to some more experiments down the road.

I've been meaning to ask - do you primarily cross with Jalapenos? I've noticed most of the crosses you mention usually involve the Zapotec Jalapeno.

CaneDog · Dec 4, 2020

catchthebear said:
Bumper crop on those Variegated Jalapenos, CD! Happy you had success with yours

Haha - thanks, man. My bumper crop of one :rolleyes:

They've been a very interesting variety to grow, though. I appreciate the seeds and now that I have my act together they should do much better. I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes of the primotalii you sent me. I haven't had any really gnarly pods in a bit and those should fit the bill.

HeatMiser said:
Nice you were able to get seeds from one of those variegated jalapenos CD. Hopefully that will lead to some more experiments down the road.

I've been meaning to ask - do you primarily cross with Jalapenos? I've noticed most of the crosses you mention usually involve the Zapotec Jalapeno.

IIRC, I actually never crossed a jalapeno or any annuum until maybe two seasons ago. My prior crossing was mostly with chinense and pubescens. I even stopped growing jalaps for a while when I had more limited space than I do now - not being able to get red ones at markets and not having my own was a bummer though.

The Zapotec's are what got me started wanting to cross them; initially to get a slightly bigger pod that had more of the JZ's flavor and zip. Along that same time frame I've been intrigued by the many different varieties and I find they're becoming a bigger part of my recent grows.

Inside now I'm growing the variegated jalap's, orange spice, lemon spice, chile rayado, the JZ x PJ F2's, and I had 3 Tekne Dolmasi x Jalapeno Zapotec F2's sprout just last week (should be the last additions to my indoor grow). I keep them all quite small so I can grow more varieties in limited space. I've been thinking that next outdoor season I might try bringing in some genetics from hidalgo or tampiqueno serranos to bolster the heat a little - might work well with one of the larger-but-milder varieties. I know your jalafuego are getting the job done well for you, but if you find you want to give something funky a try let me know. I'm starting to get a pretty good sampling of varieties.

HeatMiser · Dec 4, 2020

CaneDog said:
IIRC, I actually never crossed a jalapeno or any annuum until maybe two seasons ago. My prior crossing was mostly with chinense and pubescens. I even stopped growing jalaps for a while when I had more limited space than I do now - not being able to get red ones at markets and not having my own was a bummer though.

The Zapotec's are what got me started wanting to cross them; initially to get a slightly bigger pod that had more of the JZ's flavor and zip. Along that same time frame I've been intrigued by the many different varieties and I find they're becoming a bigger part of my recent grows.

Inside now I'm growing the variegated jalap's, orange spice, lemon spice, chile rayado, the JZ x PJ F2's, and I had 3 Tekne Dolmasi x Jalapeno Zapotec F2's sprout just last week (should be the last additions to my indoor grow). I keep them all quite small so I can grow more varieties in limited space. I've been thinking that next outdoor season I might try bringing in some genetics from hidalgo or tampiqueno serranos to bolster the heat a little - might work well with one of the larger-but-milder varieties. I know your jalafuego are getting the job done well for you, but if you find you want to give something funky a try let me know. I'm starting to get a pretty good sampling of varieties.

Thanks CD. Yes, we love Jalafuegos, but since they're hybrids, I've decided against crossing them since I don't know what kind of genetics are in them, I'm going to save seed from some pods and grow them at some point to see what comes out. I'd definitely love to give those Zapotecs a try since the strain is already established.

I'd like to see how small you keep your plants indoors and how often you prune them. I have the same problem with space which limits my grows to 5 - 6 plants in 5 gal containers. However, if I could instead use much smaller containers and ensure some sort of production I'd be able to cycle through many more varieties or roll the dice with some crosses. That's why I'm trying the 1 gal containers.

PaulG · Dec 4, 2020

Lookin’ good, CD. Your grow could be called
Jalapeño Heaven!

CaneDog · Dec 6, 2020

PaulG said:
Lookin’ good, CD. Your grow could be called
Jalapeño Heaven!

Thanks, Paul. It's at least Jalapeño Haven for the time being, but I'm hoping for Jalapeño Heaven

HeatMiser said:
I'd like to see how small you keep your plants indoors and how often you prune them. I have the same problem with space which limits my grows to 5 - 6 plants in 5 gal containers. However, if I could instead use much smaller containers and ensure some sort of production I'd be able to cycle through many more varieties or roll the dice with some crosses. That's why I'm trying the 1 gal containers.

Here's a couple examples. Often I can get them to fork fairly low and then fill in without pruning. If they're getting within a few inches of the maximum height I want them to get (about 15" including container) and they haven't forked, I'll cut them back low, encouraging them to grow from multiple low laterals and keeping them up close to the lights so they don't stretch. By the time they get to height again they're usually producing and no longer climbing. Some varieties simply won't cooperate, but most seem too. Certain wilds and baccatum and also PdN types come to mind as often being difficult.

Neither of these has been topped. What seems to work best for me is keeping them in smaller, and in particular shallow, containers as long as possible (minimizing the root run, but not letting them get rootbound) and keeping them close to the lights. I typically leave only the outside two bulbs in a T5HO fixture so I can keep the plants right up close.

EDIT: I'm currently stepping up using these pots, 3.5's then 5.5's - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FL1SE7O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Jalapeno JZxPJ F2: Growing out more than up since it forked. Don't need much production from this; I just want to see the plant and have a few pods and seeds. It might make sense to prune this one at the two ends.

Grocery Store Mystery: It's not really visible, but this has forked already and started to bud. I expect it will add another few inches as it fills out. This should end up about as big as I want them to get and it should give a decent amount of production.

CaneDog · Dec 6, 2020

Good news from the quarantine tent with lots of ripening activity recently. I cleaned up a handful of plants at end of season and brought them inside. They're mostly either manageably-sized plants with unripe pods and smaller or fragile ones I can't passively OW with the cold-hardier plants - pubescens, flexuosum, eximium, cardenasii, etc. The tent has a T5HO fixture, so when I zip it closed it gets good and warm and does a good job of ripening things up and getting plants growing again if I top them back to sticks.

- Lower left wavy pods flashing are the second of two purple flower baccatum varieties I grew this summer.
- Right-side pods are Aji Giallo (à la Mildfruit) - the straw-marked pod just barely flashing is a cross with PaulG's Aji Amarillo.
- Also notable, the upper-left stick plant just branching out is a wild cumari (thanks Leo) with really cool flowers, which I couldn't get to set pods before the end of the season. I'm hoping for a cool little compact bush as it grows out again inside.

Mildfruit · Dec 6, 2020

Im glad to see you got pods from it! Its definitely my favorite baccatum variety, what did you think of the taste?
Also exciting cross, if you could get a bigger version the pepper would be perfect imo

CaneDog · Dec 6, 2020

Mildfruit said:
Im glad to see you got pods from it! Its definitely my favorite baccatum variety, what did you think of the taste?
Also exciting cross, if you could get a bigger version the pepper would be perfect imo

I have a bush full of big pods outside, but I'm doubtful any will ripen at this point - same is true with the Aji Amarillo. Next year I'll be sure to get ahead of the game. This one is just a small "seeds" plant I could move inside. I'm looking forward to tasting the first ripe pod this week.

I thought this cross would be a fun one based on your reviews of the Giallo and Amarillo - plus I remember you mentioning it. I think the tough part is going to be the selection process, as the plants and pods will likely look very similar to one another, with taste being the main differentiating characteristic.

HeatMiser · Dec 6, 2020

Thanks CD. Looks like you also get decent production from smaller plants. I guess growing in soil has the added challenge of getting your plants rootbound as you mention, which makes this a little more challenging. For hydro, a smaller container means less margin of error in terms of water quality + more frequent changes.

Hmm, this is all just tempting me to get a bunch of small containers and do many more varieties than usual...

Demented · Dec 7, 2020

CaneDog said:
The last of the current sprouts are Lemon Spice Jalap's, which I started again because I thought I might want to cross them with one of the other new starts. I've noticed the L Spice tend to have some recurring oddities, including "conjoined twin" pods and the growth habit, below.

"Normal" Lemon Spice:

"Mutant" style Lemon Spice with odd single first true leaf and offset growth tip - anyone else seeing either of these oddities in L Spice?

Conjoined pods? Almost every L Spice and O Spice I planted, they have odd growth habits.

CaneDog · Dec 7, 2020

Demented said:
Conjoined pods? Almost every L Spice and O Spice I planted, they have odd growth habits.

Sounds like maybe I should have said the normal-looking one was the "odd" one for this variety. Yep, not double-flower style double pods, but I've seen a good few with a fair-sized growth of pod sticking out from the side of the main pod.

HeatMiser said:
Thanks CD. Looks like you also get decent production from smaller plants. I guess growing in soil has the added challenge of getting your plants rootbound as you mention, which makes this a little more challenging. For hydro, a smaller container means less margin of error in terms of water quality + more frequent changes.

Hmm, this is all just tempting me to get a bunch of small containers and do many more varieties than usual...

Heck, I say go for it, but I'm probably an enabler when it come to pepper grows. Seems there's always plenty of cool new peppers to grow and going smaller is a way to fit in more of them.

I find soil to be a more forgiving growing medium than Kratky, but, then again, I have much more experience with the former. Keeping the plants from becoming rootbound is really no problem and it's easy to pop out the root ball and check on them when uncertain.

This Bahamian goat from a couple winters back is a good representation of what I try for at maybe 15" tall (including container) and roughly a foot wide. I could comfortably fit 5, and most likely 6, of these under a 4 foot T5 and get them to produce running it low to the plants with only the outside 2 bulbs in the fixture.

Tybo · Dec 7, 2020

Nice grow log CD! You have some interesting varieties going. Those Bahamian Goats look delicious. I have them on my 2021 grow list. Cant wait to get started.
I didnt see a mention of the Rayado's in this glog. Are they still around somewhere?

CaneDog · Dec 7, 2020

Tybo said:
Nice grow log CD! You have some interesting varieties going. Those Bahamian Goats look delicious. I have them on my 2021 grow list. Cant wait to get started.
I didnt see a mention of the Rayado's in this glog. Are they still around somewhere?

Thanks, Tybo! Those goats were great. IIRC, that was the second flush of pods, which followed very hard on the heels of an equivalent first flush. After that it went outside for the summer and produced again. They're not all winners, but that one sure was.

About the Rayados, you may remember I got started super late with those (for my location, anyway). I ended up bringing two plants back inside, which are currently in the quarantine tent. One was quite small and has a single pod that hasn't yet ripened - I believe it's the only plant with pods I brought inside that hasn't at least flushed a pod yet. The other was bigger, but I cut it back to stick and I'm growing it out again. I have all my eggs in that one pod-basket now, because there'll be no ripe pods coming from the other until at least February.

I'll be growing Rayados next season no matter what, but I'd still like to try a pod soon.

Demented · Dec 7, 2020

CaneDog said:
Sounds like maybe I should have said the normal-looking one was the "odd" one for this variety. Yep, not double-flower style double pods, but I've seen a good few with a fair-sized growth of pod sticking out from the side of the main pod.

That had to have been cool to see. Have you noticed any weird leaf shapes? I have one that keeps occasionally having conjoined and bell shaped leaves.

CaneDog · Dec 7, 2020

Not sure. I remember having some double-tipped leaves and a couple that were folded over on themselves on the face and fused together, but I'm not sure whether they were one of the Spice varieties or something else (EDIT: Come to think of it, I do remember one of my Lemon Spice last season had a double-tipped/fused leaf and that plant also threw some conjoined pods). It's interesting though that those varieties seem to share some odd behavior.

Another jalapeno oddity I'm seeing is in 2 of the 4 Jalapeno Zapotec x Purple Jalapeno F2 plants I'm growing. After they forked the first time, where they should have forked again, on one side they just dead-ended and immediately set a single pod. Plus instead up growing up at a 45 degree angle like on the normal side, the plant grew basically level into the dead-end.

Here's a picture of the one showing the dead end. I topped the other one and now it's growing symmetrically. That's the freaky Lemon Spice in the Dixie cup on the right of the pic.

Wiriwiri · Dec 8, 2020

Hi CD...glad we will have an indoor grow for the off season to keep our spirits up espec., @ this time...thanks for keeping us posted & pixs too.

AFAIK,your Summer '20 Glog won the Best 2020 "IN SEASON" THP Award & I know many here will agree with me on that score. :onfire:

CaneDog · Dec 8, 2020

Thanks wiri! It's good for the spirit to have a few plants growing the cold dark months (or perhaps a few more than just a few :rolleyes:

) and to be able to keep in touch with friends at the same time.

BTW, I managed to get hold of a few small curry leaf trees, recently. They just finished a few weeks of pest treatment and fully-isolated quarantine - they arrived with evidence of white flies - and have now taken residence in my standard quarantine tent. I'll have to post a pic soon; they're cool little plants.