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Do SHUs have a flavor?

salsalady

salsalady

eXtreme Business
This subject was brought up because a member has a sig line that states "Flavor begins at 100,000 Scovilles". To avoid further highjack of the growing thread, please post comments here for discussion of whether SHU is a flavor. I'll try to copy some of the original comments from the other thread.

Scoville DeVille said:
FYI... Taste and Scoville Heat Units have nothing to do with each other.

as you were~
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Double Burn said:
FYI, you're wrong.

per dictionary.com:

taste . . .

11 . . . to perceive or distinguish the flavor of anything.

If it doesn't have enough Scovilles, I can't perceive it.

Now go and do something useful with your time. Thanks for "contributing" to the thread :rolleyes:
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Scoville DeVille said:
Are you really going to take that stance on a pepper forum?
Scoville Heat Unit is the measurement of heat, that's it.
Even peppers at the 100,000 SHU's have different flavors, similar SHU's but different flavors.
The different' SHU's do not contribute to the different flavors.

Pure capsaicin, as in Pure Evil, (over 1 million SHU) has zero taste.
On the contrary, a Poblano has 1500 SHU, and is damm tasty.
So for you to say taste doesn't begin until Habanero or Scotch Bonnet, makes you look foolish.

You're welcome.
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
...dang, where's my popcorn at?

Heat is heat. Scovilles measure heat.

Flavor is flavor. Hot and mild peppers both have flavor. A yellow brain strain reportedly has about the same Scoville rating as a Red Trinidad Scorpion. They have dramatically different flavor.

I'm with Scovie - Scovilles have nothing to do with flavor. You don't taste hot - hot burns you. If anything, the more Scoville Units, the more impedence to flavor as it burns your taste buds.
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Scoville DeVille said:
I didn't mean to jack your thread but a comment like "Taste begins at 100,000 Scovilles" on a pepper forum is just begging for comment.
I hope we can call a truce and you keep coming back to THP. If it makes you feel any better, I'll report myself. lol
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frosty said:
This is now a semantics thread and i want in. The question is whether piquance(sp?) is a flavor. The dictionary says it is. Therefore those of you who are saying that taste and scoville units have nothing to do with each other are wrong. Sweet is a flavor and salty is a flavor. I can say flavor begins at 500 ppm of salt. Now clearly there are other flavors but there is the implication due to context that I am referring to the flavor of salty.
World English Dictionary
piquant (ˈpiːkənt, -kɑːnt) — adj 1. having an agreeably pungent or tart taste
.... notice piquant is a taste via the english dictionary which is the language the poster used. Making an off topic comment about someone's tagline serves no purpose. You were wrong and even if you were right these things aren't intended to be perfectly literal. Most of language is implied. That is why when we have conversations we don't repeat the object and subject over and over again. You're welcome.
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Maybe the statement he makes, is a personal nuance, to him flavor begins at higher heat levels.

We are in a free country, he should be able to voice his opinion. If his signature line is offensive or breaks a board rule, report it. If not, then what is the difference?
 
SHU (Scoville Heat Units) aren't an object. It is a unit of measurement.

Do Inches or Centimeters have taste? No.

What's your take on it SL? Your Pure Evil is tested and certified to be over 1million SHU's, does it have any flavor?

And if "Taste begins at 100,000 Scoville's", (actuall signateture quote), what about cucumbers, tomatoes, Cheddar cheese, hot dogs, etc etc etc?

I am sorry I jacked that topic, but anyone that says that on a pepper forum is just asking for comments.

Sorry armac, but it isn't even an opinion. Macho-ism at best.

IT IS A UNIT OF MEASUREMENT!!!! Jeebus!
 
@ Double Burn's first comment- The "heat" sensation found in chiles is not a flavor. A more accurate statement is "heat begins at 100,000, anything less than that and I can't feel it." As Scovie and LDHS said, many mild chiles are very FLAVORFUL but don't have any heat, and many hot chiles have (in my opinion) not a very good taste.

@frosty- piquant = spicy, a tasteable trait, heat is a sensation, which is also why your hands burn when dealing with chiles and why other parts of the body can get burned when hands aren't washed.... ;) ....

a lemon tastes tart, but if you rub a lemon on your hands, you don't feel tartness on your hands.

Scoville Heat Units is a measure of the level of capsaicin in a chile or sauce. Modern HPLC tests can measure the amount of capsaicin in a ppm-type rating and then correlate that to a SHU number. Pure capsaicin has no flavor. Trust me, I deal with 15.2mil pure capsaicin powder and I've tasted a tiny toothpick grain of pure capsaicin. It does not have any flavor. It does have a heat sensation.

While we're on the subject-
(from what I understand) 100% pure capsaicin powder has a SHU of 16 million. 100% pure capsaicin can only be made in a lab and is extremely expensive to produce. The capsaicin powder generally available is 95% pure, and is refined using different proprietary processes. 95% pure capsaicin is 15.2 million SHU. All those collectors bottles and "Pure Capsaicin Vial Kit" that say they are 16 million are wrong. They are actually false advertising. I heard somewhere that Blair's was in legal trouble because they sold stuff as 16 million and it wasn't 16 mil.
 
Well stated SL. SHU is not a pepper, lol therefore has no taste.

As far as Blair's 6AM "sauce", hahaha, they should be in legal trouble because it sucks. My OPINION.

Piquant is not even in this discussion. it is another term with another meaning, "Spicy" does not necessarily mean HOT.

This whole thing started because of the signature that says,

"Taste begins at 100,000 Scovilles"

"Strong Lumber begins at 100 inches" :rofl:

taste
/tāst/
Noun
The sensation of flavor perceived in the mouth and throat on contact with a substance.
Verb
Perceive or experience the flavor of.
Synonyms
noun. flavor - savour - savor - flavour - relish - palate
verb. sample - savour - savor - try - experience


scoville
Web definitions
The Scoville scale is a measurement of the spicy heat of a chili pepper, due to its capsaicin content. Capsaicin is a...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville

fla·vor
/ˈflāvər/
Noun
The distinctive quality of a particular food or drink as perceived by the taste buds and the sense of smell.
Verb
Alter or enhance the taste of (food or drink) by adding a particular ingredient: "they use spices to flavor their foods".
Synonyms
noun. flavour - savor - savour - taste - relish - aroma - smack
verb. flavour - season - spice
 
I am a bit confused here, SHU is a sensation that is tangible, but it is not a taste... Color of a pepper has as much or more to do with the flavor then SHU. Also, I am not sure who says that you can not feel a lemon on your skin has never cut up or had allot of lime or lemon juice on there skin for awhile. You def can tell after you have cut a lemon or lime and had exposure to your skin, and I bet you would notice it if you got any in your mucus membranes also wtf does that have to do with peppers.

What are you/they trying to figure out or say?
 
BadPants, This topic started from a person's sig line that says "FLAVOR TASTE begins at 100,000 Scovilles". Other pointed out (as you also said) that a SHU is a unit of measure of heat/capsaicin, not a taste. And there ensued some other comments.

re~ the lemon, yes, you can feel lemon on your hands as the acid might get into cuts, or prolonged exposure to the acids on skin will have an effect on the skin. But that is the skin reacting to the acid. You cannot feel tartness on your hands. The lemon example was to point out the differences of FLAVORS and SENSATIONS.

Heat/capsaicin is a sensation, not a tasteable flavor.



edit- to correct wrong word in the quote.
 
I am with SD on this one..... I look at it from a construction worker stand point. SHU are numbers on a measurement scale on paper or on the internet. When measuring a piece of lumber to be cut you usually use a tape measure, tape measures taste like metal and dirt (yes I know they do personally, long story) so I can imagine that SHU tastes like paper or whatever the heck your computer tastes like.

Hope that makes sense......


Carry on.................................
 
:rofl: @ ^^^^
 
:lol: thanks Scovie, and I had looked at the original post too.....

edited the post for the correct word.
 
Hee Hee. We are certainly wasting a bunch of calories on this. I hate to say it but I am coming down on the opposite side of some of my favorite posters. PPM of nacl is a unit of measurement and indicative of how salty something is. Salty is a description of how something tastes. Higer PPM of nacl something will taste more salty; Scovilles can be converted to PPM of capsaicin. Is the burning sensation from capsaicin a taste?
@frosty- piquant = spicy, a tasteable trait, heat is a sensation, which is also why your hands burn when dealing with chiles and why other parts of the body can get burned when hands aren't washed.
Piquant is the only english word I know that is used to describe the sensation of capsaicin. Spicy can mean a hot taste or the flavor of sage. Taste is one of the 5 senses i.e. taste is a sensation therefore the fact that capsaicin creates a sensation does not negate that it can be a taste. It means it satisfies a necessary condition for a taste.

If I get salt in my eye the sensation is different than if I get salt in my mouth. Does that mean salty is not a taste? of course not. The sensation of capsaicin on the hands (or eyes) is different than the sensation in the mouth. I would say that you could call the sensation a flavor or taste. If I asked someone how does that salsa taste and they failed to mention that it was was piquant (loaded with capsaicin) I would be pissed.

When describing taste piquance is a normal component and thus part of the normal vernacular. I get that some people would disagree but is it so hard to see that a reasonable knowledgeable person would describe a dish as "hot" (piquant) when describing the flavor? Heat is measured by scovilles.

World English Dictionary
capsaicin (kæpˈseɪɪsɪn) — n a colourless crystalline bitter alkaloid found in capsicums and used as a flavouring in vinegar and pickles. Formula: C [sub]18 [/sub]H [sub]27 [/sub]O [sub]3 [/sub]N

Is the sensation of burning a taste/flavor? Reading definitions I would say yes.
"Do SHU's have a flavor?" This is a strawman is not at all what the tagline was about. Shu's are a unit of measure of piquance which is a flavor. You are twisting the tagline beyond its original intent. Inches are not a length but a measure of length
"Are you really going to take that stance on a pepper forum?" Apeal to authority not to reason or facts
"You're welcome." an attempt to say that your logic is undeniable rather than use undeniable logic
"Strong Lumber begins at 100 inches" Another strawman I can flip this and say "A marathon starts at 26 miles" but you are saying you can't measure a marathon with miles because miles are a unit or measurement.

You guys are using logical fallacies to defend your positions.
 
frosty said:
Hee Hee. We are certainly wasting a bunch of calories on this. Any way to burn calories while sitting at a computer works for me. :lol:


Is the burning sensation from capsaicin a taste? we agree to disagree

Piquant is the only english word I know that is used to describe the sensation of capsaicin. "HOT" is more often used to describe a food with capsaicin in it.

Spicy can mean a hot taste or the flavor of sage. When eaten, sage, (or basil, or any other herb or flavoring) will not generate the "heat rush", or endorphin rush that capsaicin will. From dealing with capsaicin in the early rounds of Pure Evil testing, there were several people who ate a good amount of capsaicin laced Pure Evil, but did not get any heat sensation or taste/flavor in their mouth. About 20 minutes later, their body went into the capsaicin-induced endorphin rush. This, and the fact that I have eaten pure crystalin capsaicin, is the basis for my feeling that capsaicin (or SHU's) does not have a flavor or taste.

Taste is one of the 5 senses i.e. taste is a sensation therefore the fact that capsaicin creates a sensation does not negate that it can be a taste. It means it satisfies a necessary condition for a taste. "FEEL/TOUCH" is also one of the 5 senses. I still maintian that the burn from capsaicin is a feeling not a taste.


When describing taste piquance is a normal component and thus part of the normal vernacular. I get that some people would disagree but is it so hard to see that a reasonable knowledgeable person would describe a dish as "hot" (piquant) when describing the flavor? Heat is measured by scovilles. Many dishes can be described as "picante" or spicy, and not have any capsaicin in them at all.

World English Dictionary
capsaicin (kæpˈseɪɪsɪn) — n a colourless crystalline bitter alkaloid found in capsicums and used as a flavouring in vinegar and pickles. Formula: C [sub]18 [/sub]H [sub]27 [/sub]O [sub]3 [/sub]N Oh yea...that's right...."They can't put anything on the internet if it isn't true" "where'd you hear that?" "The Internet."

You guys are using logical fallacies to defend your positions.
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The lumber analogy was used to point out that units of measure were mixed up. You can't measure strength in inches, or, inches are not an indication of strength. It comes down to the fact that SHUs are a unit of measure. While we can debate whether capsaicin is tastable or not, in the end you cannot taste a unit of measure. It's like tasting an inch or smelling a milliliter.


Sounds like we'll continue to disagree about capsaicin, and that's OK. It's a good discussion.

:cool:



I wonder how many calories that used up?
 
frosty said:
If I asked someone how does that salsa taste and they failed to mention that it was was piquant (loaded with capsaicin) I would be pissed.
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Tomatoes, Onions, Jalapeños, Cumin are tasty. You can taste them.
No one would ever say, "I'm really tasting a hint of SHU's in that Salsa".
 
Maybe this will help?

tongue_map_zps068ae683.jpg


I fail to see where the "heat" taste buds are, but if capsaicin is an alkaloid, then it would taste bitter, and therefore would have a perceivable "flavor".

I've had pure evil. To me it didn't "taste" like anything, but it was hot as hell. But I would have perceived a similar sensation if I had dropped it in my eye, got some up my nose, and/or rubbed it in certain other areas of my body. And sometimes I feel it upon bowel evacuation. I can't say that about ANYTHING else that "has a taste/ flavor". Therefore, to me, capsaicin only is perceived as a sensation... not a taste/flavor.

Now, for sake of argument, the word "taste" has a double meaning... and that MIGHT be where this discussion is butting heads. For example, I could walk into your house, assess your furniture, decor, etc., and based upon my own personal preferences make a judgement on whether or not you have good "taste".

But I would agree that SHU is a unit of measurement, and it's hard to taste that. What flavor does time have?
 
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