Etsy.com type service for Hot Sauce / Salsa ???

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

Had a thought for creating an internet service.  I could put up an Etsy.com like service for Hot Sauce / Salsa makers.  Etsy.com is a shopping mall of sorts.  You join, you get an online store.  People can then search all the online stores, go from one to the next but each store is independently operated.  They charge a percentage, but I am thinking of doing it as a symbiotic relationship. 
 
I grow peppers, I dont really sell hot sauce or salsa. Many sauce makers do not grow peppers.  So I was figuring on having the store free but asking please consider buying my peppers.  Maybe a logo on the stores that promotes my peppers.

If you think it is a good idea and would be interested in testing as I build it, tell me which domain you think would be best:

HotPepperJuice.com - Own it, not doing anything with it.
HotSauceByMail.com - Own it, parked a Amazon affiliate store on it but could move the affiliate store for this project.
 
I enjoy symbiotic / non contractual relationships.  Like when I flipped my tractor, my neighbor saw it and came to help just cause... well that is the neighbor contract.  You see something you can laugh at later, you gotta man up and help.  Otherwise it is just plain rude to laugh later.  So have idea for online service but want to see if there is interest before I dedicate time.  Please me know what you think.
 
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Cottage industry online is an oxymoron. That's like an electric Amish buggy.

Online is for national or international commerce. Your state will not allow that. They also will not allow hot sauce. If they do, by chance, you will not be able to sell in a national or international marketplace. Meaning, online.
 
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Lucky Dog, yes you have shared facts and I have repeatedly given you cudos for sharing.  You have also made statements which are utterly false.  The false ones can be very discouraging to people thinking about starting a business such as we are discussing.  I have shown with links to the common wealth of Kentucky website and the Kentucky State University website.  But you continue, changing your words a bit each time and creating lots of straw man arguments.  I have to wonder why it is.  I am not trying to ride you at all guy.  Its just you keep making statements which are not at all true.

Again, speaking only to the program here in Kentucky.
 
You said:  "IT IS ILLEGAL TO MAKE A HOT PACKED SHELF STABLE ACIDIFIED PRODUCT AT HOME."
 
That is not at all true.  Herbal jelly is a "hot packed shelf stable acidified product" and the University of Kentucky, which in part runs the program states rather clearly that it is an acceptable product.  Here is the link again: http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/micro/
 
Oh wait, they didn't use the specific term 'shelf stable'. Here is the link to the Kentucky University PDF that does - http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/micro/HBM%20Brochure%20January%202006.pdf

You said: "Again: the only exception is for a farm who works at a farmers market..."
 
With the word "only" in there, this is not at all true.  In Kentucky, you can use the program to sell at a farmers market, a certified roadside stand or on property owned by the processor.  As we are talking about a home / farm based kitchen, that means a person can sell from their own home.

See this PDF from the University of Kentucky: http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/micro/HBM%20Brochure%20January%202006.pdf
 
You said: "...who grows a certain % of their crop"
 
Not at all true.  This link is a PDF from the program, note the URL is at the Kentucky State University: http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/micro/HBM%20Brochure%20January%202006.pdf  It uses the term 'primary or predominant'.  There is no percentage based mandate what so ever.  If you grow wheat and turn it into flower, you can sell blueberry muffins.  However, if you grow blueberries you can sell blueberry muffins.  In some states, there is no requirements that you grow a thing.  So again, you arenot correct.
 
Lucky Dog said: "and they MUST have a kitchen that has been approved for manufacture of such products (e.g. "certified")"
 
Not at all true.  Again, the PDF on the program.  Note no mention of even having a kitchen, much less any form of certified kitchen.  The only inspection is if you have a complaint.  There is one guy who uses the program to make kettle chips over a wood fire undercover but out doors. I forged his tripod.  http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/micro/HBM%20Brochure%20January%202006.pdf
 
You said: "That's it. Not in stores, not online and not across state lines."
 
In logic, that there is called an informal fallacy.  Specifically a Straw man argument.  It is an argument that a person props up which he can easily win despite the fact that the other party to the conversation did not argue against it.  While discussing the exemptions for home based food prep, I have not said anything about crossing state lines nor selling in stores.  I have been very clear over and over that in Kentucky the exemption extends only to your own farm, certified road side stands, and farmers markets.
 
However, also another false statement.  If the producer owns the store in which the product is being sold, it is perfectly legal under the program because as I have demonstrated earlier wit that pdf, you can sell on the producers property.  Nothing says a store can not reside on that property.

Lucky Dog said: "We have several such products at my local FMs and they all have the same exception. And they all have had to build custom detached kitchens to prepare the products in, and they all have had to have the state inspect them."

And those folk have to adhere to California law.  Here in Kentucky, we have to adhere to Kentucky law.  I have shown that according to the State of Kentucky and the University of Kentucky you are wrong on more counts than I could keep track of.  I have provided links to the state and the university which make that very clear and obvious.

I suggest your argument is not with me, but with the state of Kentucky.  I am simply reporting and documenting the law as they say it is because I think they are a better authority than you on Kentucky law.

When you say an activity is illegal when it is not, you discourage law abiding folk from that activity.  I am simply asking that you stop saying things which are not true because doing so can discourage.  I would rather people take advantage of the tremendous resources offered by their extension office and the many exemptions states are now making for cottage industry.

In short, please do not assume that the laws in your state apply to people living and doing business in Kentucky.  They do not and I have demonstrated just that.
 
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Sirex said: "I never said you could sell hot sauce from a home kitchen face to face."
 
Nor did I intend to imply you did.  I explained that you migrated the conversation by explaining cottage industry law for your state.

Sirex said: "And like LDHS said no state has a cottage food exception for hot sauce."
 
As I have demonstrated with links to the State of Kentucky, the Kentucky State University, and the PDF overview for the program Lucky Dog is in wrong concerning hot sauce.  I have demonstrated authoritative references that include the exemption for sauces, for acidified foods, for hot packed foods, for shelf stable foods.

What special category do you feel hot sauce falls into?  I would say it is a shelf stable acidified hot packed sauce.  All things which my state allows in the program.  Do you think that if you put the word 'hot' in front of the word 'sauce' it is all of a sudden in a banned category?

Lucky Dog is wrong with about everything he said about home based value added items and i listed each error with links to the State of Kentucky and Kentucky University.  Please argue with them, not me.
 
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Lucky Dog, so you gave up on the terms shelf stable, acidified, and hot packed because I showed that those statements were false.  As well as the certified kitchen, the separate door, and many of your other statements; all false.  Now you are going to go back to the term 'hot sauce'.

Without calling it a shelf stable acidified hot packed sauce (all of which I have demonstrated are legal in the KY program) just how would you describe this illegal hot sauce you are speaking about?  Seriously, you keep giving definitions I keep showing that your definition is covered by the program.

Honestly trying to understand because at this point, all I can see is a guy who doesn't want to say something like, oh wait I don't know the laws in the State of Kentucky.  Guy, why would you?
 
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Etsy-like store is online.
 
Cottage industry is offline. (You can sell in some states but have to deliver by hand.)
 
Entire thread is moot.

Good luck with the store.
 
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Why would I "back off" of a term? That is the term for hot sauce class of products.

Jellies and jams are canned goods. They are hot packed but not as regulated/controlled as hot sauce.

As this topic was about selling hot sauce, and all my posts are about hot sauce.

You're a very confrontational person. Just like the last time you were on this site.

I tried to help answer your question. If you don't like my answers, that's on you. I'm not getting into a fight with you no matter how great your efforts to pursue one with me. :rolleyes:
Husker21 said:
Déjà vu.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was thinking.
:doh:
 
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Hot Pepper - Sorry, I did not respond earlier.  You are 100% correct, the moment you cross a state line the state exemptions no longer apply.  I agreed to that much earlier.
 
Lucky Dog said: "the laws are federal. FDA supersedes state law when it comes to food production."
 
But earlier Lucky Dog said: ""We have several such products at my local FMs and they all have the same exception."
 
Uh guy, you can not argue that exceptions to the FDA rules exist in your state and also argue that FDA supersedes all state laws.

So you now recognize that Kentucky law says everything I have claimed and you are going to back out by saying it does not matter due to Federal law?  This despite the fact that you previously stated CA law on this matter does matter.  OK then.  I did previously say your argument is with the State of Kentucky and not me.

Would you like to end it with that, that you think Kentucky law is null and void by federal law?  Or would you like me to demonstrate how that statement is as false?  Now before you decide, please consider my late lawyer was Edwin (argued crap before the Supreme Court) Kagin. Also keep in mind that as there has been no US Government vs. Kentucky Home Based Processing case as of yet, it would all be speculation.  However the story would include Supreme Court cases involving wheat, marijuana and machine guns.  It would end with how it is legal to manufacture and sell switchblades in the state of Kentucky.

Seriously guy, it is a very fun story.  Would you like to hear?
 
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Oh thank you Grant because this is really screwed up.  I was talking to my now late lawyer Edwin Kagin.  He argued stuff before the Supreme Court, so I figure he had a clue.  The thing I was talking about was a knife.  He was Gil Hibben's lawyer at the time, so I figure he had an even bigger clue.  Gil Hibbens being the most famous knife maker in the world n all. Made some of the Klingon and Rambo knives and all.  Nice man.  His brother Dale is even nicer.  His wife, well maybe not so much.  I rubbed her the wrong way.  Go figure.

The thing I was talking to Edwin about was making a sword where a knive blade would spring out the bottom of the hilt like one of the older Musketeer movies.  What I wanted to know if it would be legal to make but not sell.  He said I could sell the thing.  I said I thought it would be a switch blade.  He said it would be a switch blade.  I said I thought switch blades were illegal.  He said not in Kentucky.  I said isn't there a federal law against them.  He explained that the federal law only prohibits interstate and international commerce in switchblades because the federal government has no authority to govern commerce within a state.
 
Evidently, any right not specifically enumerated in the Constitution as belonging to the Federal Government actually belongs to the many states and the people.  The Commerce clause only grants congress the right to regulate interstate and international commerce.  Not commerce which never leaves the state.

I thought to be an ass an asked him about illegal drugs, marijuana, what not.  He explained to me that is because the Supreme Court screwed up with wheat.

Wheat story goes, farmer got busted for growing wheat without a federal permit (no goofing, it is illegal to grow wheat without a permit).  Farmer argue the federal government has not right to regulate his growing of wheat because its authority to do so was from the Commerce clause and that clause only comes into play if the wheat leaves the state.  The Federal government argued that because he was growing wheat that he would otherwise purchase, he was effecting the interstate commerce by effecting the price of wheat via supply and demand.  That was the 1930s or there about.

Years later, someone made the same argument about marijuana.  The supreme court, which had changed dramatically since the wheat thing would likely have to rule in favor of the guy growing dope for his own use.  The justices at the time were moving away from broad sweeping federal authority, but this was marijuana they were talking about... the devils weed.  So they decided not to decide.  They refused to hear the case and pointed the lower courts to the wheat case.  Oh wait, it gets better.
 
So along comes a guy that by most measures was none too nice.  He was busted with some machine guns he had made in his home workshop, which after 1986 was illegal to do even if you applied for a build license.  No new machine guns for civilian ownership could be built. He argued that because his machine guns were not part of interstate commerce that the federal government had no authority to regulate them under the commerce.  HE WON!!!

Of course the prosecution brought it to a higher court and his win was overturned.  I had no idea an appeal that you won could be overturned by a higher court, but there it was.  It went back and forth until it hit the supreme court which decided not to decide and pointed them to the Wheat case.
 
So in a way, growing your own marijuana and making your own machine guns is only illegal today because growing your own wheat either is or was illegal.
 
We pay taxes for this to go on.  Anyway, thus far there has been no Federal Government vs. Kentucky home based microprocessor case.  So Ima thinking the Kentucky laws which permit home based microprosessors to sell at various venues inside KY are solid.
 
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It is illegal to fish with a bow and arrow in Kentucky.
 
It is illegal to shoot game out of the window of a moving vehicle, with the exception of a whale.
 
In Lexington - It is illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket.
 
In Owensboro - A woman may not buy a hat without her husband's permission, and also ...
One may not receive anal sex.
 
So, what's the end-game - that you can grow and bottle and sell hot sauce, online, from Kentucky? ...
 
Let's just allow that to be true, because it's not going to matter in a moment ...
 
Your user-base just became KentuckiansWhoWantToSellOnline only. That's reduced significantly enough to just call it a vertical in my book.
 
Nothing wrong w/ a vertical - especially as a programmer/solopreneur, but it's not going to be something that appeals to enough people here to garner much interest ...
 
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