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fermenting Fermented Pepper Mash

C

charlesNYC

Ok so i'm throughly confused on this subject.
Some people boil their blended peppers before setting them up to ferment, other don't because it kills the fermenting bacteria.
Some say just add salt, others say add enough to create a protective coating on top of the pepper concentrate.
Some say use an airtight jar, others say a loosely fitting peanut butter jar so that air escapes.

How do you do it?
I trust everyone here far more than all those geniuses in Gardenweb.
 
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charlesNYC said:
Ok so i'm throughly confused on this subject.
Some people boil their blended peppers before setting them up to ferment, other don't because it kills the fermenting bacteria.
Some say just add salt, others say add enough to create a protective coating on top of the pepper concentrate.
Some say use an airtight jar, others say a loosely fitting peanut butter jar so that air escapes.

How do you do it?
I trust everyone here far more than all those geniuses in Gardenweb.
Click to expand...

Thais use the term "fermented" and I've never gotten an explanation about how it's done here either. I've never heard of fermented peppers.
I anxiously await a knowledgeable response.Cheers.
 
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You don't want to boil, just add salt and possibly a starter culture. You also need to allow CO2 out without blowing up your jar so make sure its not airtight. You can use one of those water lock thingies they use for brewing which allows gasses out but no oxygen in. You can also invest in expensive fermentation pots
http://www.sausagemaker.com/fermentationpots.aspx

Good luck
 
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POTAWIE said:
You don't want to boil, just add salt and possibly a starter culture. You also need to allow CO2 out without blowing up your jar so make sure its not airtight. You can use one of those water lock thingies they use for brewing which allows gasses out but no oxygen in. You can also invest in expensive fermentation pots
http://www.sausagemaker.com/fermentationpots.aspx

Good luck
Click to expand...

POTAWIE, is this like a sauerkraut thing? Fermentation is mostly an alcohol thing in my field of knowledge; so, can you expand on this a bit? Definitely got my attention! Cheers.
 
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Very similar to sauerkraut. Fermenting chiles use lactobacillus bacteria which eats sugars and produces lactic acid so its basically turning sugars into an acid which makes it a safer product without using vinegars, and also more nutritious from what I understand
 
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paulky_2000 said:
You could always dry them and make a nice powder...;)
Click to expand...
Yes...thats what I've been doing with then so so far. I have small pill box and I keep 6 or 8 to carry with me when we go out to eat. But I already have about 350-400 or so dried for my chili powder mix.
They add a nice quick burn to the tip of your tongue that goes away pretty quick....and work out well blended with some dried new mex, cayenne, and habaneros.
This is the first year I have grown these, (5 plants)....and after figuring out how to fight the birds, I usually get 40 or 50 a day.
So I thought I'd give fermenting a try (on a very small scale)
A friend just gave me one of those jars with an air lock contraption on top, that I looking forward to using.
 
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I have a batch of pepper mash going right now. 1 quart using caribbean red and 2 pints using a mix of yellow CARDI and fatalii. Been sitting for about 6 weeks now. I added peppers, a little bit of salt, onions, garlic, carrots, and tomato. I used sourdough hooch as a started and put the mix in regular canning jars with the 2 piece lids. Did not preboil, just washed everything real good. Popped them open today to get a Ph reading and all three jars were at 3.3 and had a wonderful aroma. Bubbling has stopped and the Ph is at a safe level, so probably go ahead and boil the one with the caribbean red down to the consistancy I want and see how it tastes. I just hope it tastes as good as it smells.

jacob
 
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Fermentation helps change the taste and texture of the sauce as well as lowering the pH and making it safer to store for long periods of time.

Fermentation occurs when lactic acid bacteria (LAB) transform carbohydrates into lactic acid. LAB can survive and thrive in acidic environments with high salt concentrations. My microbiology is a bit rusty, but I believe that the lower pH allows other bacteria to propagate and begin breaking down fatty acids and water into carbon dioxide (and ethanol, I think). The net effect is that the pepper mash has a mellower flavor, it's better preserved (due to the low pH and reaction of much of the water and lipids), and it has a homogeneous texture. (I've read that you can determine completeness of fermentation when the sauce doesn't separate.)

As long as you've washed your peppers and sterilized your jar or crock, you shouldn't need to boil your mash. For fermented pepper sauces, the basic methodology I've read is to puree your peppers with salt, vinegar, and maybe garlic and then seal in a jar and ferment for a month or two. After fermenting the mash can be strained and used or bottled.

This is the point where I've been having questions. Some recipes I've read say that the sauce can be bottled after straining and it will keep well (provided everything is sterile during bottling). Others call for boiling the strained mash and then bottling. I'm inclined to boil after fermenting. It won't reverse the fermentation and it will thicken the sauce depending on how long it's boiled. My main concern is being able to bottle it in a way that I can store it with refrigeration until opening.

I've grown peppers for awhile, but this is the first time I've tried making hot sauce. I'm trying to make a scotch bonnet-mango sauce, so I'm not sure whether or not to ferment since most I've the recipes come across call for cooking the mash at a high temperature for a substantial period of time before bottling. So if anyone has any tips for making a Caribbean style sauce, I'd really appreciate some tips.

As for whether or not to ferment a more basic chili sauce, everything I've read points to fermenting to get the best sauce. Here is a great recipe for a basic fermented chili sauce that I found. I haven't tried it yet, but it's gotten good review. The recipe is on this page in a video box on the right hand side of the page. If anyone wants more of the specifics concerning the molecular biology of hot sauce fermentation, I found a great article from Louisiana State U. food science research study.

I hope this helps, and if anyone has experience bottling any type of sauce, I'd appreciate any instructions.
 
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I have A LOT of green peppers from this season and think I would like to make a mash out of them. I know salt should be added but I have been seeing many things, some saying the amount of salt is based on weight of peppers and other things sayings its based on SHU (Hot peppers get 15% salt and milder are 12%). Im thinking I want to use vinegar for fermenting. So how much vinegar should be added? I will be using 1/2pt jars.
 
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IMO fermenting is a way to get away from using vinegar. If done properly, you get the Ph down as low as vinegar and get a mellower flavor than vinegar. If you do not have a starter like kefir or sourdough hooch (yeast), I know some people use nappa cabbage to top the mash as it ferment easily, or getting fresh sourkraut and using some of the liquid as a starter. I used the sourdough hooch my self. It was easy to make and took about a week to get it ready. Mix 1 cup of unbleached bread flour with 1 cup of warm distilled water into a glass jar (I used a qt canning jar). Everyday throw half of it out and replace with 1/2 cup flour and 1/2 cup distilled water. Do this everyday until it starts to bubble and has a sour, beery kind of smell then it is ready to keep in the fridge. Every week or two you will need to feed it by dumping half of it out and replacing it just like when you started it.

jacob
 
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So lets say you wanted to age it and not have to tend to it constantly do you just do everything you have mentioned and just stop at the dumping the half of the liquid out when its in the fridge?
 
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The yeast in the sourdough starter feeds off of the carbs in the flour. The cold in the fridge will slow them down a lot, but it still needs to be replenished every now and again. But every week or 2 should be fine. I do it about every 2 weeks, and still see some bubbling starting in the short time it is at room temp before going back in the fridge.

jacob
 
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I go a little different rout I wash and grind my peppers then bring the mash up to 165F. then I let it cool down before Adding a bottle of triple bock Beer to it with just a little salt and a pinch of sugar. I have a Beer brewing Container that I dump the mash into and fit a water lock on it. Takes about a month for it to stop bubbling, after that I strain it off and bottle it in some sturdy beer bottles that I cap. The flavor is not as sharp as going with the lacto and salt method.
George W. :)
 
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Backyard_Pepper_Grower said:
Fermentation helps change the taste and texture of the sauce as well as lowering the pH and making it safer to store for long periods of time.

Fermentation occurs when lactic acid bacteria (LAB) transform carbohydrates into lactic acid. LAB can survive and thrive in acidic environments with high salt concentrations. My microbiology is a bit rusty, but I believe that the lower pH allows other bacteria to propagate and begin breaking down fatty acids and water into carbon dioxide (and ethanol, I think). The net effect is that the pepper mash has a mellower flavor, it's better preserved (due to the low pH and reaction of much of the water and lipids), and it has a homogeneous texture. (I've read that you can determine completeness of fermentation when the sauce doesn't separate.)

As long as you've washed your peppers and sterilized your jar or crock, you shouldn't need to boil your mash. For fermented pepper sauces, the basic methodology I've read is to puree your peppers with salt, vinegar, and maybe garlic and then seal in a jar and ferment for a month or two. After fermenting the mash can be strained and used or bottled.

This is the point where I've been having questions. Some recipes I've read say that the sauce can be bottled after straining and it will keep well (provided everything is sterile during bottling). Others call for boiling the strained mash and then bottling. I'm inclined to boil after fermenting. It won't reverse the fermentation and it will thicken the sauce depending on how long it's boiled. My main concern is being able to bottle it in a way that I can store it with refrigeration until opening.

I've grown peppers for awhile, but this is the first time I've tried making hot sauce. I'm trying to make a scotch bonnet-mango sauce, so I'm not sure whether or not to ferment since most I've the recipes come across call for cooking the mash at a high temperature for a substantial period of time before bottling. So if anyone has any tips for making a Caribbean style sauce, I'd really appreciate some tips.

As for whether or not to ferment a more basic chili sauce, everything I've read points to fermenting to get the best sauce. Here is a great recipe for a basic fermented chili sauce that I found. I haven't tried it yet, but it's gotten good review. The recipe is on this page in a video box on the right hand side of the page. If anyone wants more of the specifics concerning the molecular biology of hot sauce fermentation, I found a great article from Louisiana State U. food science research study.

I hope this helps, and if anyone has experience bottling any type of sauce, I'd appreciate any instructions.
Click to expand...

BPG,
That is a very interesting LSU study you posted.Thanks for doing so.
Even though my memories of HS chemistry are nearly 40 years old, the study is still very helpful in my understanding of the fermentation process.
A few things I caught when reading it:

1.)the results of the study appear to indicate that 24 months of fermentation in wooden vs plastic barrels, didn't significantly influence physical or chemical changes in the pepper mash.

2.)In a 1971 study it was determined that capsaicin concentration was lowest in the young green immature fruit. However, once this fruit is fully mature, it had the highest capsaicin content just prior to beginning the ripening stage. After the ripening stages begin, as seen by a change in color from green to red, the
capsaicin concentration decreased .

3.)pH acidity points of interest:
* a maximum pH specification of 4.6 for pickled products (FDA, 2003)

* The average pH of fresh ground Tabasco peppers before salting was 4.98 (with a range of 4.97 to 4.99).

* Following the addition of 8% salt, the average pH fell to 4.7 (with a range of 4.59 to 4.80).

* Within the first month of fermentation, the pH significantly decreased to 3.9 (range to 3.07 to 4.41) and 3.7 (range to 3.17 to 4.6) for plastic and wooden barrels, respectively.

* After 1 month there were no significant changes in pH.
 
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Other than the hot sauce I have made this year, my baking experience isnt much higher than putting something in the microwave and reading the directions that came with it. So I have a few questions and some of you may feel the urge to want to hit me in the head with a tack hammer. I am learning though. :D So I have been trying to figure this all out.

1) Sourdough Hooch. What is it exactly? Is this something that is made or is it something I just grab some from the grocery store?
2) If I understand the directions, if I were to ferment some peppers do I just cut/chop them up and throw them in a jar with garlic and onion then pour/sprinkle (don't know if its powder or liquid) the sourdough hooch on it?
3) would it be best to only ferment peppers first then add garlic, onion, etc later or is it best done all together?
4) If the sourdough hooch is something that is made, how is it made?
5) I also saw one of those links mention cutting up the peppers, throwing it in a jar sprinkling some salt and a quick shake. Is that all fermenting is then?
6) Does anyone have a real basic nice fermenting recipe to start from?
 
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crazy8 said:
Other than the hot sauce I have made this year, my baking experience isnt much higher than putting something in the microwave and reading the directions that came with it. So I have a few questions and some of you may feel the urge to want to hit me in the head with a tack hammer. I am learning though. :D So I have been trying to figure this all out.

1) Sourdough Hooch. What is it exactly? Is this something that is made or is it something I just grab some from the grocery store?
2) If I understand the directions, if I were to ferment some peppers do I just cut/chop them up and throw them in a jar with garlic and onion then pour/sprinkle (don't know if its powder or liquid) the sourdough hooch on it?
3) would it be best to only ferment peppers first then add garlic, onion, etc later or is it best done all together?
4) If the sourdough hooch is something that is made, how is it made?
5) I also saw one of those links mention cutting up the peppers, throwing it in a jar sprinkling some salt and a quick shake. Is that all fermenting is then?
6) Does anyone have a real basic nice fermenting recipe to start from?
Click to expand...

Sourdough starter can be made at home(its a simple recipe and procedure)or you can get a commercial starter mix at a local health food/organic grocery store.
But you don't necessarily have to use a starter (sourdough,whey,kefir).
Doing so just speeds up the fermentation process by promoting Lactobacillus bacteria(good stuff)and an increase of lactic acid, thats why its also refered to as Lacto-fermentation ...and probiotic fermentation.

Fermenting veggies has been around a long long time.But most of us are not familiar with the process.
Every year,my grandma, who had a 3rd grade education, regularly made what she called brine pickles, sauerkraut,beet pickles,etc. using this same technique.
Her recipes had been handed down to her from her mom and grandmother.
I watched and helped her many times....boy,now do I wish I had taken notes and saved them.

I also have a cousin who is from south Korea,and grew up burying their Kimchi pot. She makes a fresh batch of Kim chi nearly every week (its so hot only she and I can eat it)but does it indoors these days.
I talked to her a couple day ago...and after listening to all my questions and concerns, she assured me that I was making it all too complicated and worrying too much.
She told me again and again..."if it smells rotten, it probably is,otherwise,its probably not"... "so stop worrying and enjoy the flavors".
She made the following recommendations for me to follow:
Make sure everything is cleaned thoroughly including the vegetables/chiles.
Use only pure sea salt or pickling salt(no additives or kosher salt).
Use only filtered water because chlorine inhibits fermentation.
Make sure everything stays submerged in the brine solution.
Leave it alone and let it ferment until there are no bubbles.

Here are three sites you might want to visit.
I found them to be very helpful in furthering my understanding and removing some of the mystery behind the technique.

This one is a youtube of making your own sourdough starter
This is an online book "Get Cultured" that is very clear explanation of fermenting, and has a several good recipes I plan to try.
http://issuu.com/nourishedkitchen/docs/getcultured

And the last one is a fermentation "pickling" article, with plain explanation and steps to follow.
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-09-18-real-deal-pickles-pickled-pepper-hot-sauce-apickling-made-simple/

I hope these help you along...as they did for me.
 
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It is actually better to ferment the garlic, onions, carrots, some even put apples and other fruits or celery along with the peppers. It will get everything down to the appropriate Ph without needed any additional acid source. If you add it later, it will raise the Ph and you will need to lower it again with lemon juice, vinegar, whatever to get it to the safe level.

Didn't look at the video posted above so maybe it is already in there, but the hooch is the liquid that seperates from the flour water mixture that is the sourdough starter. It is often dark and smells like alcohol. I chose the sourdough starter myself because I like sourdough bread and it is quite inexpensive to make since I already had the flour and water on hand. I use distilled water for the sourdough starter and for the pepper mash to try and limit what bacteria and molds are in there to start with.

For my pepper mash, I stem and deseed the peppers and put in the blender with all the other ingredients and add some water to blend it down smooth. Put it in canning jars, add some more distilled water to cover the contents (so I don't have to put a weight to hold it under the water), add about a tbsp or so of the sourdough hooch, put the top on the jar and shake it a bit to mix the contents a bit and put it in the cabinet to do its thing. Usually start to see some bubbles in about 4 or 5 days. With the added water, I will boil it down to the consistancy I want before I put it is woozies.

Hope that helps!
jacob
 
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