+1 Hot Stuff, just get a rubber gromet from your local homebrew shop or off of ebay, drill a hole and your set.
+1 to PIC 1 also, good call!
JMHO
Cheers,
RM
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If you have a question about commercial production or the hot sauce business, please post in The Food Biz.
tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101
- Thread starter RocketMan
- Start date
+1 Hot Stuff, just get a rubber gromet from your local homebrew shop or off of ebay, drill a hole and your set.
+1 to PIC 1 also, good call!
JMHO
Cheers,
RM
Yep, you're pretty much on the right track. I usually remove stems because who wants to taste those? Sometimes I'll remove seeds too depending on the pepper - some are much easier to seed than others. The seeds will get strained out later when I make hot sauce. As for refrigeration, don't do it until you want to store the mash semi-permanently. The colder temps will retard the fermentation and stall it out. I would let it sit at room temperature the entire duration of the ferment - typically 6-8 weeks but many people go a year or even two years. Remember the fermentation process will preserve the mash
I might also recommend making a couple mashes with cheap store-bought peppers to experiment with first so you know what to look out for before going to your more pricey heirloom peppers. You might even be surprised at the results! If you're going to make a mash of the heirlooms, you can always keep them in the freezer as you harvest until you're ready since they're just going to get mashed up anyway.
I might also recommend making a couple mashes with cheap store-bought peppers to experiment with first so you know what to look out for before going to your more pricey heirloom peppers. You might even be surprised at the results! If you're going to make a mash of the heirlooms, you can always keep them in the freezer as you harvest until you're ready since they're just going to get mashed up anyway.
You don't need to "pulverize" your peppers before you ferment them. As you can see in the picture above, I just rough-chopped mine. I suppose if you have a lot of ingredients that you're trying to cram in there, pulverizing is the way to go. 
Thanks everyone. I sincerely appreciate it.
A little confusion on my part here about the brine. I am reading about a salt to water ratio and also a salt to vegetable weight ratio. If I pack a jar with diced peppers and vegetables and leave say one inch of space there is not much room for a brine solution as opposed to leaving say three inches of head space. One inch would result in a much lower salt content than three inches. Now salt by weight of contents would give a significantly higher salt level and require less water in these scenarios. Is there an advantage to one over the other or more a matter of preference?
The basic idea is to keep your vegetables submerged under the brine solution, and however you choose to get there is up to you. The brine solution people are talking about is usually the water that comes out of the vegetables and salt mash from the salt drawing out the moisture. Some people add water if they're dealing with particularly thin-skinned pods like cayennes. Fermenting things like cabbage for sauerkraut would obviously not need extra water added due to the already high moisture content of the cabbage.
How do I incorporate these airlocks I bought (not expensive)? Someone said "drill holes in Mason jar lid". The diameter is about an inch. That solution seems sort of "trickeration". I'm not a handyman... I'm a gardener.
For those confuzzled (somewhere between confused and puzzled 
) about possible yeast contamination from sourdough starter, that's the main purpose of the brine. Yeast beasties can't tolerate high salt concentrations, neither can the bad lactic acid producing bacteria ( like some streptococcus strains). Without the salt, they can thrive together for a while. In beer making, the goal is to let the yeast make alcohol before the lactobacillus uses all the sugar to make lactic acid, if you're making something that is soured a bit. In wine making and other beers, the goal is to sterilize everything to keep bacteria out and only add the yeast. In fermentation of vegetables, you're doing the opposite, getting the bacteria going to make lactic acid and keeping the yeast at bay with salt so it doesn't turn your mix into alcohol. There is some evidence that S. cerevisiae can survive in low numbers in saline, but the salt stress changes their metabolism, so they get busy using a different sugar and converting it into glucose, but that sugar isn't present in vegetables, so should have minimal relevance to your hot sauces. And, once the pH drops below 6ish, that also adds to the inhospitable environment for all but a few lactobacillus strains that can tolerate acid and salt.
I can't think of any reason yeast alone would lower pH, and more likely, does nothing in a brine solution, but wild lactobacillus is everywhere and would start the old-fashioned way. Sour is a characteristic of acid. Perhaps some CO<sub>2</sub> dissolved in the solution lowered the pH some.
I've never made hot sauce, but my family has made sauerkraut. A trick I learned from my grandmother was to line the buckets she made it in with a triple layer of plastic bags, then twist tie the bags down to the level of the brine/cabbage. You could weight those, but the bags themselves kept everything submerged, and using twist ties instead of knots let gases escape. That might help some of those having issues with weights keeping everything submerged.
) about possible yeast contamination from sourdough starter, that's the main purpose of the brine. Yeast beasties can't tolerate high salt concentrations, neither can the bad lactic acid producing bacteria ( like some streptococcus strains). Without the salt, they can thrive together for a while. In beer making, the goal is to let the yeast make alcohol before the lactobacillus uses all the sugar to make lactic acid, if you're making something that is soured a bit. In wine making and other beers, the goal is to sterilize everything to keep bacteria out and only add the yeast. In fermentation of vegetables, you're doing the opposite, getting the bacteria going to make lactic acid and keeping the yeast at bay with salt so it doesn't turn your mix into alcohol. There is some evidence that S. cerevisiae can survive in low numbers in saline, but the salt stress changes their metabolism, so they get busy using a different sugar and converting it into glucose, but that sugar isn't present in vegetables, so should have minimal relevance to your hot sauces. And, once the pH drops below 6ish, that also adds to the inhospitable environment for all but a few lactobacillus strains that can tolerate acid and salt.I can't think of any reason yeast alone would lower pH, and more likely, does nothing in a brine solution, but wild lactobacillus is everywhere and would start the old-fashioned way. Sour is a characteristic of acid. Perhaps some CO<sub>2</sub> dissolved in the solution lowered the pH some.
I've never made hot sauce, but my family has made sauerkraut. A trick I learned from my grandmother was to line the buckets she made it in with a triple layer of plastic bags, then twist tie the bags down to the level of the brine/cabbage. You could weight those, but the bags themselves kept everything submerged, and using twist ties instead of knots let gases escape. That might help some of those having issues with weights keeping everything submerged.
Not so, kahm yeast infestation is the white stuff common in lacto fermentation that so many confuse with mold.
salsalady
Business Member
Hi Y'all, I just read (most) of the thread...(skipped some of the technical chemestry stuff... 
)
Just a couple quick things to post and then it's back to reading....
Hot Stuff and Dr Pacheco- I think the Dr has an airlock with a large bung-type rubber stopper on it. I have one like it. If I'm correct, DrP can remove the large rubber stopper and take the plastic airlock which should have a diameter more like 3/8th" to the hardware store and get a smaller 1/2" or so rubber grommet like HS described. If you have a really good hardware store (a mom-n-pop-type) you could probably take the lid you want to use in with the airlock, and they would maybe even drill the hole for you and fit it with the proper size grommet.
We have stores like that around here, but then again...we live in the middle of no-where
For clarification-
RM- you mentioned putting things in the dishwasher for sterilization. Maybe I didn't read it right, but do you put the bottle, reducer, and cap in the DW? Usually when doing hot packing only the bottle needs to be sanitized as the rest is taken care of by inversion. I may not have understood the post correctly.
Large pot- it isn't spelled out, but to help the noobies...it should be a NON-REACTIVE pot. Stainless steel, glass, enamel (if there are NO CHIPS), do not use aluminum, cast iron, copper...
Bleach water- RM, the original post says to fill the pot with HOT water and bleach. Every health food class or course I've seen says to use luke-warm or cold water as hot water actually reduces or eliminates the effectiveness of bleach. Each health district is different, so I'm just sharing what WA state regs are. I had thought that all states had similar regs for bleach. Please let me know if your health codes are different. Just trying to keep accurate information for when people ask questions. Thanks.
Thanks for the great tutorial and...lively....discussions.
I have a gallon+ batch just started using some different ingredients than I've seen here. Will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again~
)Just a couple quick things to post and then it's back to reading....
Hot Stuff and Dr Pacheco- I think the Dr has an airlock with a large bung-type rubber stopper on it. I have one like it. If I'm correct, DrP can remove the large rubber stopper and take the plastic airlock which should have a diameter more like 3/8th" to the hardware store and get a smaller 1/2" or so rubber grommet like HS described. If you have a really good hardware store (a mom-n-pop-type) you could probably take the lid you want to use in with the airlock, and they would maybe even drill the hole for you and fit it with the proper size grommet.
We have stores like that around here, but then again...we live in the middle of no-where
For clarification-
RM- you mentioned putting things in the dishwasher for sterilization. Maybe I didn't read it right, but do you put the bottle, reducer, and cap in the DW? Usually when doing hot packing only the bottle needs to be sanitized as the rest is taken care of by inversion. I may not have understood the post correctly.
Large pot- it isn't spelled out, but to help the noobies...it should be a NON-REACTIVE pot. Stainless steel, glass, enamel (if there are NO CHIPS), do not use aluminum, cast iron, copper...
Bleach water- RM, the original post says to fill the pot with HOT water and bleach. Every health food class or course I've seen says to use luke-warm or cold water as hot water actually reduces or eliminates the effectiveness of bleach. Each health district is different, so I'm just sharing what WA state regs are. I had thought that all states had similar regs for bleach. Please let me know if your health codes are different. Just trying to keep accurate information for when people ask questions. Thanks.
Thanks for the great tutorial and...lively....discussions.
I have a gallon+ batch just started using some different ingredients than I've seen here. Will let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again~
SL you are correct about the bottles, only the bottle needs sanitization. Since I'm not a professional and for the sake of cost I buy my bottles at the store for 69 cents and no shipping then empty and wash and strip labels. Shipping costs may be worth it just so no label striping is necessary So I run everything through just for an extra measure of safety.
Now where were you when I needed you? I hadn't heard that about hot water and bleach but, the water I use is more warm than hot and only sink hot not boiling. That was just how I learned it from my grandparents. Good stuff to know. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Looking forward to hearing about how your experiments go. Tasty at least I'm sure.
Cheers
RM
So I run everything through just for an extra measure of safety.Now where were you when I needed you? I hadn't heard that about hot water and bleach but, the water I use is more warm than hot and only sink hot not boiling. That was just how I learned it from my grandparents. Good stuff to know. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Looking forward to hearing about how your experiments go. Tasty at least I'm sure.
Cheers
RM
salsalady
Business Member
Ah, OK, rocketman, I understand about the bottles. Probably a good thing to run everything through the DW. As long as the lids don't have the plastic liners, that procedure should work fine.
One more quick note on bleach- some people think that putting bleach in their soapy wash water is sanitizing the dishes while they was. This is incorrect. The soap, like HOT water, neutralizes the effectiveness of the bleach. Standard washing procedure for commercial kitchens is a 3-step process- Wash, Rinse, Sanitize
Wash- in hot soapy water
Rinse- hot fresh water, preferably running water as opposed to a sink full of fresh water. The sink-full of fresh water gets full of soap after a few dishes and then you're not rinsing all of the soap off
Sanitize- 1 teaspoon (or capful for easy measurement) per gallon (4L) fresh luke-warm to cool water
Air Dry the dishes, do not use a towel to dry the dishes.
Hope this helps. Pics of my first try coming soon.
SL
edit- I just realized I started a big jar of green mash on St Patrick's Day! WOOT! It's destined to be a success! :fingerscrossed:
The usual assortment of jalapeno, onion, garlic, and for the seal, a plastic bag (new bread bag, not a ziploc) with salt brine in it. I used the salt water in case it leaks a little, then it won't dilute the brine. Day 2, I think there's some action starting.
One more quick note on bleach- some people think that putting bleach in their soapy wash water is sanitizing the dishes while they was. This is incorrect. The soap, like HOT water, neutralizes the effectiveness of the bleach. Standard washing procedure for commercial kitchens is a 3-step process- Wash, Rinse, Sanitize
Wash- in hot soapy water
Rinse- hot fresh water, preferably running water as opposed to a sink full of fresh water. The sink-full of fresh water gets full of soap after a few dishes and then you're not rinsing all of the soap off
Sanitize- 1 teaspoon (or capful for easy measurement) per gallon (4L) fresh luke-warm to cool water
Air Dry the dishes, do not use a towel to dry the dishes.
Hope this helps. Pics of my first try coming soon.
SL
edit- I just realized I started a big jar of green mash on St Patrick's Day! WOOT! It's destined to be a success! :fingerscrossed:
The usual assortment of jalapeno, onion, garlic, and for the seal, a plastic bag (new bread bag, not a ziploc) with salt brine in it. I used the salt water in case it leaks a little, then it won't dilute the brine. Day 2, I think there's some action starting.
salsalady
Business Member
Hi wmx4e, welcome!
How long have the chiles been "working"? Do you have an airlock or lid of some kind?
from what other's have said- if it's already in a jar and working, swirl the jar around a couple times a day to mix up the chiles and brine, and I think in a few more days the pulp will settle to the bottom.
If it hasn't been working or is just starting, put some kind of weight on the pulp to hold it down. A small glass dish,plate,bowl, some clean glass marbles or pebbles wrapped in clean cheesecloth or even a clean scrap of cotton and tied would do the trick or a plastic bag filled with salt ,which would also work as a airlock in some cases.
I'm only quoting what I've read as I'm only working on my first mash ever right now.
How long have the chiles been "working"? Do you have an airlock or lid of some kind?
from what other's have said- if it's already in a jar and working, swirl the jar around a couple times a day to mix up the chiles and brine, and I think in a few more days the pulp will settle to the bottom.
If it hasn't been working or is just starting, put some kind of weight on the pulp to hold it down. A small glass dish,plate,bowl, some clean glass marbles or pebbles wrapped in clean cheesecloth or even a clean scrap of cotton and tied would do the trick or a plastic bag filled with salt ,which would also work as a airlock in some cases.
I'm only quoting what I've read as I'm only working on my first mash ever right now.
wmx4e,
If the mash all seems to be floating to the top then it's working as the trapped bubbles are causing the mash to float up. Hence the swirl / shake to get the trapped bubbles released. If all of the mash was at the bottom of the jar and no weight was holding them down I'd be worried that it wasn't working. After it's been working and the CO2 is at a level in the jar that it's releasing you not a nice peppery smell in the air.
SL,
very nice looking mash there, love it.
Now how long are y'all planning on letting them run?
If the mash all seems to be floating to the top then it's working as the trapped bubbles are causing the mash to float up. Hence the swirl / shake to get the trapped bubbles released. If all of the mash was at the bottom of the jar and no weight was holding them down I'd be worried that it wasn't working. After it's been working and the CO2 is at a level in the jar that it's releasing you not a nice peppery smell in the air.
SL,
very nice looking mash there, love it.
Now how long are y'all planning on letting them run?