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Forum Debate: Are you For or Against GMO?

I am:

  • Total voters
    48
jb_orchidguy said:
Global warming is a cycle. Its not sped up or whatever they want to call it by fossil fuels.
 
Hmmmmmm  :confused: 

Aspartame will turn into formaldehyde and is unstable above 80 something degrees. Its what cause thengilf war sickness back in then first gulf war. (It has never been proven, and out of all the potential causes this is the least likely) Many doctors will tell you the same thing and that's why people with migraines shouldn't drink aspartame. Let's nit even mention all the miriad of other health issues it causes. And the story of how it took three tries to get it approved I about there. I've found it a couple of times. It should never have been approved.
 
I am assuming you never read the link? ESFA groups are made up of the top scientists in Europe, they are not allowed to have any conflicts of interest no matter how tenuous. They are actually disliked/despised by the big corps as they consistently refuse food claims as you need a really high level of evidence. The big corp opponents reckon they are too strict when it comes to evaluating the evidence. If they have said something is safe, I trust them as they have gone through all available credible evidence rigorously, rather than some cherry picking cowboy who gets all their info from sites like mercola.com, naturalnews etc etc. EFSA will not approve something because someone will stand to make money on it.  

GMO is the same way. As I said before not all of it is bad, but they are playing with fire and there are some that's not good. One day the chimera we make will turn around and bite us.



Scientists want funding for their work. And I can make any study look like I want based on what the pocket book says and it also goes hand in hand with interpretation sometimes and how studies are conducted. Its not a black and white endeavour.
I've seen the spider silk in goats milk on video on the news. Chimera. Will bite back.
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As previously stated, peer review and replication of studies, weeds out the cowboys.
 
Please excuse if it has already been mentioned, but without GMO millions of people would starve to death and the number will keep rising with the population.  I suppose there may be some Darwinism at play there if people have children where there isn't enough to eat but still...  both GMO and non- have their place.
 
Consuming chemicals and food additives has nothing to do with GMO.  In some cases GMO can even REDUCE the chemicals needed to ward off crop disease, and if you believe all the global warming !@#$, GMO can produce more drought resistant crops.
 
Genetic modification is going to save humanity! It already has! The future holds the answer!
 
XD
 
I can't wait for horizontal gene transfer to bite this whole industry in the ass. Although there are some interesting aspects, such as the work to recreate rice as a C4 plant, it comes well after recreating plants to withstand incredibly toxic herbicides. But with our lovely habit of thinking that todays understanding is the be all end all (our world is equal to the sum of our understanding of it! :liar: ), and that tomorrow will bring that one miracle of science that will harken the new age of independence from nature, there's sure to be a few bumps in the road.
 
 
Dave2000 said:
Consuming chemicals and food additives has nothing to do with GMO.  In some cases GMO can even REDUCE the chemicals needed to ward off crop disease, and if you believe all the global warming !@#$, GMO can produce more drought resistant crops.
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How's that, when the mass majority of additives are corn and soy based.....?
 
hot stuff said:
It kind of depends on the type of gmo. If it's just taking genes from say one pepper and grafting it onto another pepper sequence to by hybridization to better guaranteeing what characteristics a plant gets, I don't have a problem with that.
 
I do have a  problem with grafting on genes of one species or kingdom and grafting them unto the genes of a completely different set of genes, i.e. tomato genes to corn genes. or human genes to plant genese.
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I agree with this view with one exception... Norman Borlaug's GM Wheat.
 
Update: The wheat is a hybrid of wheat and rye.
 
Pushing a foreign gmo variety in India or Ghana (see plant breeders bill controversy) has nothing to do with fighting starvation or save the third world, is just evil business.

Cya

Datil
 
Datil said:
Pushing a foreign gmo variety in India or Ghana (see plant breeders bill controversy) has nothing to do with fighting starvation or save the third world, is just evil business.

Cya

Datil
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I agree with this Datil... I misunderstood the information I had. That's all.
 
miguelovic said:
Genetic modification is going to save humanity! It already has! The future holds the answer!
 
XD
 
I can't wait for horizontal gene transfer to bite this whole industry in the ass. Although there are some interesting aspects, such as the work to recreate rice as a C4 plant, it comes well after recreating plants to withstand incredibly toxic herbicides. But with our lovely habit of thinking that todays understanding is the be all end all (our world is equal to the sum of our understanding of it! :liar: ), and that tomorrow will bring that one miracle of science that will harken the new age of independence from nature, there's sure to be a few bumps in the road.
 
 
 
How's that, when the mass majority of additives are corn and soy based.....?
Click to expand...
 
glyphosate is not incredibly toxic at all. it is actually like... an order of magnitude less toxic than even the last generation of herbicides.  pesticides byenlarge aslo have gotten much less toxic... to humans at least.
 
i dont think you are likely to see a gigantic issue directly related to GMO foods any time soon. what is far more likely are the circuitous  cause and effect secondary issues that are barely understood at the time, then slowly linked back to GMO crops.
 
EX: some gmo plant produces more X by utilizing more UV light... such an alteration makes bufferflys, whom are ostensibly sensitive to plant colors(maby not)... butterflies get confused  confused, and fly to tennis courts, where they are smashed by tennis racket wielding maniacs.
 
 the worst environmental issues almost ALWAYS occur when the mechanism for harm is poorly or entirely misunderstood...we know lots about plant breeding tho. its not like a brand new drug... with a hereunto brand new mechanism of action etc, kinda like thalidomide.
what we probably dont know a lot about is strange soil microbes, insect migration, nematodes etc.
 
idk, i guess the best thing one can do...is stay ontop of these things... from a regulatory standpoint, as well as a scientific one.
its important to keep risks in context tho....
people flip their shit when they hear fracking into fault lines causes earth quakes... but will just shrug when informed of the same issue regarding dams, geothermal, etc.   
 
 
 
 
charlesquik said:
the problem isnt gmo by itself, the problem is mosanto
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what issue do you have with monsanto? have you read up/ watched those youtube videos we linked? much of what is said about monsanto is completely bullshit.
 
with that said, it is a corporation, and they want to make money, lots of money. to that end they act as any corporation does... grasping the teat with one hand and lobbying with the other is probably the biggest philosophical issue i have with any corporation.
 
 
Datil said:
Pushing a foreign gmo variety in India or Ghana (see plant breeders bill controversy) has nothing to do with fighting starvation or save the third world, is just evil business.

Cya

Datil
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from the wiki... it seems that ghana is simply agreeing to honor the intellectual property of companies that introduce GMO products? am i missing something?
 
i imagine it costs quite a lot to introduce these products and services... if their patents and intellectual property is worthless, why should they invest?
 
also isnt ghana chronically food short, or famine prone?
 
queequeg152 said:
 
glyphosate is not incredibly toxic at all. it is actually like... an order of magnitude less toxic than even the last generation of herbicides.  pesticides byenlarge aslo have gotten much less toxic... to humans at least.
 
i dont think you are likely to see a gigantic issue directly related to GMO foods any time soon. what is far more likely are the circuitous  cause and effect secondary issues that are barely understood at the time, then slowly linked back to GMO crops.
 
EX: some gmo plant produces more X by utilizing more UV light... such an alteration makes bufferflys, whom are ostensibly sensitive to plant colors(maby not)... butterflies get confused  confused, and fly to tennis courts, where they are smashed by tennis racket wielding maniacs.
 
 the worst environmental issues almost ALWAYS occur when the mechanism for harm is poorly or entirely misunderstood...we know lots about plant breeding tho. its not like a brand new drug... with a hereunto brand new mechanism of action etc, kinda like thalidomide.
what we probably dont know a lot about is strange soil microbes, insect migration, nematodes etc.
Click to expand...
 
There is a trend I notice, not just in the GM arena. Product X is entered into the market, released first in a Third World country, and only after actualizing that the coolies aren't dying off in droves, brought over to the mainstream in Europe and North America.
 
Spirotetramat - it's a Dutch wiki, you may have to re-Google it and translate the page again.
 
Genetically modified mosquitoes. The new weapon in the war on malaria, dengue, etc. Tested where? No approval was granted in Western nations, so one simply goes to a country south of the equator, where you can do as you please, flaunt international conventions, and damn the locals.
 
The danger of glyphosate, even disregarding the effect it has on the environment (agreed, it is not as toxic as some herbicides, but with hundreds of millions of pounds applied per year, it makes up for it in quantity), the growing resistance in weed species (see: increased use, new formulations, or falling back on old ones), are the unnamed adjuvants (more than likely, penetrating agents) and the surfactants, which can comprise 20% of the total premix, working their way into ground water, flowing into the oceans.
 
queequeg152 said:
 
from the wiki... it seems that ghana is simply agreeing to honor the intellectual property of companies that introduce GMO products? am i missing something?
 
i imagine it costs quite a lot to introduce these products and services... if their patents and intellectual property is worthless, why should they invest?
 
also isnt ghana chronically food short, or famine prone?
Click to expand...
 
I think the issue he is trying to raise, is that in order to have access to these products, the receiving country has to bow down on multiple fronts (wages, removing labour agreements, set prices, government structure overhaul), in a similar way to receiving aid from WHO and the IMF. What need does Ghana have to increase its exports of wheat, monocropping its fertile land solely for export, when it should be promoting feeding its people with crops that naturally grow well there, instead of fitting into a one size fits all equation. Produce one crop, sell it all at predetermined prices, and use that capital to import resources to supply the populace. They should be following the example of Ethiopia, refuse global welfare, and promote made in Ghana solutions.
 
 
 
One of my main issues as well, is that instead of following the practice of hybridizing (increasing genetic strength, without the pitfalls of inbreeding), corporate genetic modification is focused on novel modifications, that are centered on increased use of their products. Increasing resistance to pesticides, herbicides, incorporating foreign DNA to convoluted ends, are their goals, when instead they should be isolating and promoting the genes that result in healthier root stock, higher yield, vigor, etc.
 
Edit: removed unsubstantiated rambling nonsense.
 
indeed.

edit: lul, i tried to post a long reply... like yesterday, the forums were buggered, and i couldnt post... now the desire to re write it is gone.
 
Awww crap to that, I saw you replied and thought "Bloody hell, something to read with meat on it".
 
Indeed he says.
 
 
Pffff says I.
 
you know whats funny? i just did it again. tho i cannot blame the forum...
i tried to tab, as i was bulleting some points, and then hit backspace... this caused me to back out of the page, and again loose my writing.
 
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