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GMO - yes or "hell no" ?? and why?

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Man, Gluten would be another thread of it's own but isn't something that we're really trying to watch right now. Mainly staying as close to whole grains as possible and avoiding preservatives also. Basically, if I can't pronounce it and don't have any idea what it is, don't want the kids eating it.
 
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RocketMan said:
Man, Gluten would be another thread of it's own but isn't something that we're really trying to watch right now. Mainly staying as close to whole grains as possible and avoiding preservatives also. Basically, if I can't pronounce it and don't have any idea what it is, don't want the kids eating it.
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That just reminds of a great saying that my best teacher in high school (he was my science teacher, chemistry & physics teacher over multiple years) and my instructor at college both brought up: "K.I.S.S - Keep It Simple Stupid".  I'm sure others have heard it before, too. Not particularly meant to be offensive, but it is direct and to the point. And well, even Einstein advocated the point (in different words, of course). :)
 
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It seems there is a quite a dichotomy here. Everyone is entitles to his/her beliefs and opinions; there is no need for the hostility that appeared in some of these posts.
I must say I don't like the links to editorials or newspaper articles - these mean absolutely nothing.
Similarly, unless someone here can cite review papers or an equivalent number of references (easily 200+), his/her arguments mean very little as well.
 
In any case, it is interesting to see how divided we all are on the subject.
 
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Zoli said:
Hell no! Just google the dirty things what Monsanto did/does.. these companies are greedy bastards and don't give a s*** about you or the environment, sadly.
Could it be done in a beneficial way for everyone - without harming nature? Yes.
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with respect to the monsanto = evil claims.
listen to this. its an excerpt from a podcast run by a very knowledgeable person.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tc8gtZgGko
 
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I will sum it up like this.
I prefer not to.
But I damn sure want to have the choice and the knowledge forthwith of the presence of a GMO each and every time the choice is presented. so I can choose to not make the purchase.
 
I've heard, Oh, its safe. Before.
 
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impending_bending said:
It seems there is a quite a dichotomy here. Everyone is entitles to his/her beliefs and opinions; there is no need for the hostility that appeared in some of these posts.
I must say I don't like the links to editorials or newspaper articles - these mean absolutely nothing.
Similarly, unless someone here can cite review papers or an equivalent number of references (easily 200+), his/her arguments mean very little as well.
 
In any case, it is interesting to see how divided we all are on the subject.
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there is actually a gang of websites that aggregate studies for topics like this. vaccines gmo, wifi sensitivity, dead bees... etc.
 
here is one purporting to contain over 1000 studies that support gmo safety.
http://www.biofortified.org/genera/studies-for-genera/

HP22BH said:
I will sum it up like this.
I prefer not to.
But I damn sure want to have the choice and the knowledge forthwith of the presence of a GMO each and every time the choice is presented. so I can choose to not make the purchase.
 
I've heard, Oh, its safe. Before.
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you dont need the government to do this for you. there is already a thriving marketplace for organic food. just buy only organic food, its just that simple isnt it? im pretty sure  organic labeled food is free of gmo ingredients.
 
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queequeg152 said:
here is one purporting to contain over 1000 studies that support gmo safety.
http://www.biofortified.org/genera/studies-for-genera/
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Review papers present a "review" of the current state of the science and review the full spectrum of findings. I should have said "equivalent number and diversity of references" - it doesn't matter how many references you have if your collection excludes those that do not support your claims.
This is exactly what I was talking about - links by themselves mean virtually nothing and using them to argue is pointless.
I'm sure there are similar websites presenting only studies against.
Notice also that I never said I was against GMO...
queequeg152 said:
you dont need the government to do this for you. there is already a thriving marketplace for organic food. just buy only organic food, its just that simple isnt it?
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No. No it is not.
 
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impending_bending said:
Review papers present a "review" of the current state of the science and review the full spectrum of findings. I should have said "equivalent number and diversity of references" - it doesn't matter how many references you have if your collection excludes those that do not support your claims.
This is exactly what I was talking about - links by themselves mean virtually nothing and using them to argue is pointless.
I'm sure there are similar websites presenting only studies against.
Notice also that I never said I was against GMO...

No. No it is not.
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 there was a link inside that link i think you missed? its right in the article towards the end.
 
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07388551.2013.823595
 
so organic food has gmo components in it? perhaps the anti gmo proponents should lobby said industry for stricter certification processes? 
 
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queequeg152 said:
 
you dont need the government to do this for you. there is already a thriving marketplace for organic food. just buy only organic food, its just that simple isnt it? im pretty sure  organic labeled food is free of gmo ingredients.
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Organics should not be the absolute remedy to not ingesting GMOs. The solution is not gumming up all the food without the requirement of posting such and or making the manufacturer produce both unaltered and GMO present products (kinda like coke and diet coke), with frequent and stringent testing of the unaltered product for the presence of GMOs. make it the responsibility of the ones that want to market the stuff to indicate its presence.
 
God made GMO possible, but that does not mean his intention was for man to screw around with it. He also put Adam and Eve within hands reach of the fruit of the tree of knowledge and look what happened.
 
The aforementioned was not inserted to steal the thread and/or start a bible study or theological debate. intended to be taken at face value
 
 
 
And in conclusion, Why not a thriving market place for GMO food? Why not GMO cornflakes or GMO taco shells. If its so great, then flaunt its presence instead of hiding it.
 
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what you are saying is...  why should i have to look to organic food for non GMO? is that because organic stuff costs more?
 


The solution is not gumming up all the food without the requirement of posting such and or making the manufacturer produce both unaltered and GMO present products (kinda like coke and diet coke), with frequent and stringent testing of the unaltered product for the presence of GMOs. make it the responsibility of the ones that want to market the stuff to indicate its presence.
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not sure what you mean here, but again, because GMO is not a health issue, it should not be treated like say... peanuts or caffine, where one would label his or her food explicitly.
 
unless i learn otherwise, im going to assume organic food is free from GMO ingredients... with that said, there is a market solution to this, and as far as i can tell its already in place and functioning nicely, you just might have to pay a little extra for the luxury.
HP22BH said:
 
And in conclusion, Why not a thriving market place for GMO food? Why not GMO cornflakes or GMO taco shells. If its so great, then flaunt its presence instead of hiding it.
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because GMO ingredients give no intrinsic value to the consumer, perceived or otherwise. the benefit of GMO is largely on the supply side (at the moment anyway) . the exception would be the stuff like golden rice etc.  where as Organic foods HAS an increased intrinsic value... that would be the perceived benefits of organic food.
 
btw idk if i am using "intrinsic" correctly...im NOT an economics guy...  im talking about the value of the object itself.... the total... 'utility' of the object possess.. tangible or otherwise.
 
thats not to say gmo stuffs are not providing a value to the consumer, the opposite in fact. i would argue they lower prices appreciably.
 
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queequeg152 said:
what you are saying is...  why should i have to look to organic food for non GMO? is that because organic stuff costs more?
 
 
 
 
not sure what you mean here, but again, because GMO is not a health issue, it should not be treated like say... peanuts or caffine, where one would label his or her food explicitly.
 
unless i learn otherwise, im going to assume organic food is free from GMO ingredients... with that said, there is a market solution to this, and as far as i can tell its already in place and functioning nicely, you just might have to pay a little extra for the luxury.
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Precisely,   and no,     to your questions in that order. 
 
You don't make the market that exist conform to a new technology, you make the new fit in to what is already in place
 
The first market that has existed from the beginning was the organic market. anything that follows should be subject to scrutiny and labeling requirements. not the other way around. If you want to meddle with a consumable and market it, you should be required to indicate that you meddled with it.
 
And, who said GMOs are not a health issue? I am guessing those who have a vested interest?
One only needs to look as far as the FDA and all the medications that have been passed as safe and now are subject to massive lawsuits because of health issues of those who took the medications because of the unknown risks at the time or known and not revealed risks involved with taking them.
 
There is way too much money to be made in GMO advancement.
 
Do you think big money is concerned with your health when it comes to the market share?
Just Google... Erin Brockovich, Bitter Harvest, or The future of food, just to name a few.
 
We have been there before, just a different name and a different time.
 
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HP22BH said:
Precisely,   and no,     to your questions in that order. 
 
You don't make the market that exist conform to a new technology, you make the new fit in to what is already in place
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lol what?
you cant 'make' the market do anything. The marketplace with respect to economics is an abstraction related to human behavior. the market reacts to us, not the other way around.
 
and how exactly is introducing GMO products into a normal supply chain "making the market that exists conform"?
 
the body of scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports the safety of GMO products.
 
with respect to pharmaceuticals, this comparison is a glaring red herring argument, im sure you know this however.
it does not take much critical thinking to come to the conclusion that drugs, which are EXPLICITLY by definition designed to alter your body in some manner are completely different from a food product, and should be regulated in a far different manner.
 
the unknown risks in the new drugs argument, involve new and novel mechanisms of action in most cases. this is not the case with food or gmo foods in general. 
 
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My only problem with GMO stuff is that once the company gets a patent on it, they're gonna sue the sh*t out of anyone who has a seed so much as blow over onto the field. Not looking at anyone*Monsanto* but it's a risk. And then all the local farmers who need to earn money go out of business, then they have to get a job at the larger company and they don't get paid nearly as much, among other things.
 
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cruzzfish said:
My only problem with GMO stuff is that once the company gets a patent on it, they're gonna sue the sh*t out of anyone who has a seed so much as blow over onto the field. Not looking at anyone*Monsanto* but it's a risk. And then all the local farmers who need to earn money go out of business, then they have to get a job at the larger company and they don't get paid nearly as much, among other things.
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see post #67
 
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I will agree on the planted fields but my question is, why wouldnt a farmer use the best plants from this years crop to seed next years crop.  Dont we all do that?  Does it grow with a sign that says dont reuse me.  now I believe based on what I have read that yes that farmer knowingly did it, but if he used one seed from each plant from each years crop to plant next year, he would then have their gmo seed spread across his field (more each year) and still being spread from their fields.  How many years before it is 90% or 100% of his crop.   So what, he should have to destroy his seed every 3rd or 4th year to prevent what they cant control.    If he wanted to win he should have grown a clean crop (destined only for seed use, not food supply)and then sued them for losing his ability to market it as GMO free in year 2.
We expect Nike to monitor their supply chain to ensure they are not using child labor, why cant food companies be held to the same standard to know if its organic or not.  If they started using irradiated lead in the eyelets of their shoes, we wouldnt care that they only slapped a swoosh on it and put it in a box in one place, we would want to know about all the supply chain.  Would it be Nikes fault or only the subcontractor
 
And to the original post, I eat what tastes good.  I'm sure its sometimes gmo and sometimes not.   I use to pay more for "organic" but since the term has been abused and manipulated I now concentrate on buying local.  Sometimes that is organic and sometimes its not, but it sure tastes good.  
 
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Organic = non-GMO? NOPE!
 
Organic just means its grown naturally 
 
GMO is the genetics of the food, not what was used to grow the food.
 
What i believe is some GMO's are safe, and others arent. Just some genes do not need to be messed with. Others, feel free to.
 
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