Hello all, I am real big on things organically grown and want to do this with my peppers.Has anyone out there done this and what's the best way to accomplish this.Thanks
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organic Growing Organically
- Thread starter scottishscott
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I grow mine organically, & what specifically do you need help with?
Lots of things out there that can be done to ensure minimal environmental impact and all natural growing. Ask away.
You will find a large community of both organic and chem on this site and some that are in between. really though organic isnt any harder than chem with the exception of a really nasty outbreak of pest or what have you but under normal conditions its exactly the same.
Just like chem, some ferts are long lived while others are shorter release.
Just like chem, you can manage pest with insecticidal soaps, Diatomaceous earth, etc.
All I can say is go easy on ferts at first, you can always add more later but too much and its harder to deal with. Anywho if you have specific questions ask away
Just like chem, some ferts are long lived while others are shorter release.
Just like chem, you can manage pest with insecticidal soaps, Diatomaceous earth, etc.
All I can say is go easy on ferts at first, you can always add more later but too much and its harder to deal with. Anywho if you have specific questions ask away
Well I guess I'll ask about the soil.Would it be good to use manure for the soil?What types of fertilizers can you use and still be organic?Haven't had my soil tested yet.Do you think the county agricultural extension will do this? If not what is the best way to check the soil?
I switched to full organic last year. Here's a few things I think are valuable:
!. Start a compost pile
2. think about cover cropping
3. Start a worm bin
4. Check out this list
Stuff I use:
Seaweed/Kelp extract
Alaska Fish Fertilizer (available at Walmart)
Mycorrhizae
Rock Dust
Also:
Aroura Innovations will send you a 16oz bottle of their Buddah Grow and Buddah Bloom for $6 via paypal.
I just received mine, it took a month from ordering to get them.
!. Start a compost pile
2. think about cover cropping
3. Start a worm bin
4. Check out this list
Stuff I use:
Seaweed/Kelp extract
Alaska Fish Fertilizer (available at Walmart)
Mycorrhizae
Rock Dust
Also:
Aroura Innovations will send you a 16oz bottle of their Buddah Grow and Buddah Bloom for $6 via paypal.
I just received mine, it took a month from ordering to get them.
You can try your local ag dep but to my knowledge usda does not directly certify. Last i checked you would go through private companies and they charge you depending on the size of your operation with anual inspections. Google organic certification and a boat load of hits will come up. Maybe somebody with more info can chime in but it seems like buying insurance, some are reputable otgers not so much.
Luckily peppers are a less fussy veg to grow organically. Aged low N manure like cow or horse or good compost is all they need. If you overfertilize you get no fruit and all leaves. Spinosad works on potato beetles and Safer Soap etc on aphids. Floating row cover protects against pepper maggot flies and keeps the plants warm. It is important to put in really healthy seedlings.
Definitely get a soil test through the local university or a certified lab. That will give you the basic numbers. You could then use an organic version of the fertilizer amount they recommend but it isn't worth it. Much better to add compost if you have no glaring deficiencies.
Definitely get a soil test through the local university or a certified lab. That will give you the basic numbers. You could then use an organic version of the fertilizer amount they recommend but it isn't worth it. Much better to add compost if you have no glaring deficiencies.
Capsicum
Banned
"If not what is the best way to check the soil?"
What color is it? How well does it drain? I amend my new rows with pine bark, I have black rich somewhat clay soil. If your native soil is good, doing nothing would be the best way to grow organic. I do NOT fertilize my peppers in ground, my soil is very rich as it is and I have leaves that fall in the area and rot every year so....Thats organic
What color is it? How well does it drain? I amend my new rows with pine bark, I have black rich somewhat clay soil. If your native soil is good, doing nothing would be the best way to grow organic. I do NOT fertilize my peppers in ground, my soil is very rich as it is and I have leaves that fall in the area and rot every year so....Thats organic
Before going too crazy on organic methods, this blog is worth a read. It's very well-reasoned and factually based (and if you read it fully, you'll also see it's quite balanced and fair about the positives and negatives of both organic and conventional farming). http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/18/mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/
Personally, I'd look for the best of both worlds, as that blog suggests. Synthetic pesticides that are species specific and break down quickly instead of natural ones that are broad-spectrum and linger a long time. I like manure as a fertilizer, but wouldn't hesitate to get a type that's irradiated since that prevents E. coli and is like sticking it in a giant microwave oven. Of course, the manure only qualifies as organic if it came from animals that were also raised organically, whether cow, horse or sheep manure. If you aren't sure about how the source raises their animals, I'd look for horse or sheep farms rather than cattle ranches. Horse and sheep owners tend to only treat with antibiotics therapeutically...meaning when the critter is actually sick and needs the antibiotic...while cattle ranches still may use antibiotics as feed additives to promote growth. I don't worry about it in meat, because of the pre-market withdrawal periods, but I'd worry about it in manure. If you get horse manure, make sure it's composted, not fresh, unless you want lots of weeds.
Personally, I'd look for the best of both worlds, as that blog suggests. Synthetic pesticides that are species specific and break down quickly instead of natural ones that are broad-spectrum and linger a long time. I like manure as a fertilizer, but wouldn't hesitate to get a type that's irradiated since that prevents E. coli and is like sticking it in a giant microwave oven. Of course, the manure only qualifies as organic if it came from animals that were also raised organically, whether cow, horse or sheep manure. If you aren't sure about how the source raises their animals, I'd look for horse or sheep farms rather than cattle ranches. Horse and sheep owners tend to only treat with antibiotics therapeutically...meaning when the critter is actually sick and needs the antibiotic...while cattle ranches still may use antibiotics as feed additives to promote growth. I don't worry about it in meat, because of the pre-market withdrawal periods, but I'd worry about it in manure. If you get horse manure, make sure it's composted, not fresh, unless you want lots of weeds.
I have to disagree. That article is a poorly written, poorly researched, one-sided mess. She is definitely far outside her area of knowledge, or just trolling. Many of the studies cited are highly flawed or highly misrepresented, and she cherry picks studies and information to suit her beliefs while completely ignoring contradictory studies. For example, she goes on and on about the possible benefits of GMO crops but says nothing about the inherent risks and problems that have resulted and can result from them, e.g. Roundup resistant super weeds. A fair analysis would mention both sides of the debate, yet she mostly just tries to come up with anything she can to discredit organic methods and then just says crop rotation is good in order to appear unbiased. Where is the mention of the problems of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria due to the widespread use of antibiotics in livestock? She mentions a study showing organic farms yielded 20% less than conventional farms, but doesn't mention that in the same study the organic farms used 50% less fertilizer and 97% less pesticides.
There are too many major flaws in that article to go through here, but you can read about many of them in the comments. One thing that caught my eye is where she says that organic meat is higher in trans fats and uses this to say that organic meat is worse for you. The types of trans fats naturally found in ruminant animals (conjugated linoleic acid and vaccenic acid) are not the same as artificial trans fats and lack the negative health effects of artificial trans fats. In fact, conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is believed to have some health benefits, such as anti-cancer properties. CLA is also sold as a dietary supplement because there is some evidence that it promotes fat loss and lean muscle gain.
She quotes Michael Pollan early on, and then later claims that organic methods can't provide enough food the world and would require more land. Why didn't she use this Michael Pollan quote? "First, bear in mind that the average yield of world agriculture today is substantially lower than that of modern sustainable farming. According to a recent University of Michigan study merely bringing international yields up to today’s organic levels could increase the world’s food supply by 50 percent."
From the abstract of that study "organic methods could produce enough food on a global per capita basis to sustain the current human population, and potentially an even larger population, without increasing the agricultural land base."
According to that study organic systems produce 80% more than conventional farms in developing countries because the necessary materials are more accessible to farmers in most poor countries, yet her solution for developing countries is GMO crops from Monsanto that they can't afford, widespread synthetic pesticides, and chemical fertilizer?
I think the term "organic" is dumb for a number of reasons and use a number of things that aren't organic. I personally think trying to adhere to another person's ambiguous definition of organic is a waste of time, but I do believe in responsible and sustainable growing and using a lot of the organic methods of doing things.
Add another +1 to that.
I don't think you need to worry about growing "organic" unless you plan on being certified or sell your product somewhere. Sustainable practices are far more important than adhering to a government standard. Personally, I've almost entirely stopped worrying about pests. Yes, they're annoying, but I prefer to plant enough that there is enough for me and the other little buggers out there. Happy plants can usually recover from most problems, and a happy plant means that it is in a biologically active community that isn't constantly being inundated with harmful levels of ferts and pesticides.
Take my aphid problems at the beginning of last season. Yes, it was a little hiccup, but if you keep killing off the aphids then you also risk killing off any ladybugs or other helpful critters. Once the aphid population was fairly large, the ladybugs finally moved in and took care of it, and stayed for the entire season because there were enough aphids to sustain them, but not enough to significantly harm the plants. Balance is what you should be aiming for with organic methods.
I don't think you need to worry about growing "organic" unless you plan on being certified or sell your product somewhere. Sustainable practices are far more important than adhering to a government standard. Personally, I've almost entirely stopped worrying about pests. Yes, they're annoying, but I prefer to plant enough that there is enough for me and the other little buggers out there. Happy plants can usually recover from most problems, and a happy plant means that it is in a biologically active community that isn't constantly being inundated with harmful levels of ferts and pesticides.
Take my aphid problems at the beginning of last season. Yes, it was a little hiccup, but if you keep killing off the aphids then you also risk killing off any ladybugs or other helpful critters. Once the aphid population was fairly large, the ladybugs finally moved in and took care of it, and stayed for the entire season because there were enough aphids to sustain them, but not enough to significantly harm the plants. Balance is what you should be aiming for with organic methods.
Your aphid story reminds me what I like so much about growing without chemical fertilizers and pesticides. I used to react to bugs by trying to find the right pesticide to fix the "problem." For me, a chemical gardening program was all about putting out fires. What's cool about organic/natural methods is you are working with the allies in your garden. And since ditching the Miracle Gro I've been able to turn my rock hard clay soil into something that I dig my hands into.
On the topic of aphids, I plan on using Nasturtium as an aphid trap, attracting them away from other plants. And Alfalfa as a 'good bug' hangout.
Capsicum
Banned
+1
"Your aphid story reminds me what I like so much about growing without chemical fertilizers and pesticides."
potassium silicate strengthens cell walls.
"Personally, I'd look for the best of both worlds"
Yes.
"According to a recent University of Michigan study merely bringing international yields up to today’s organic levels could increase the world’s food supply by 50 percent."
Even environmentalists know in-organics are not the problem but more the rate at which we farm.
Capsicum
Banned
"Joseph D. Rosen, emeritus professor of food toxicology at Rutgers, puts it even more strongly. “Any consumers who buy organic food because they believe that it contains more healthful nutrients than conventional food are wasting their money,” he writes in a comprehensive review of organic nutritional claims13."
But do not take my work for it, maybe Joseph D. Rosen emeritus professor of food toxicology.
"Myth #3: Organic Farming Is Better For The Environment"
This is another very true MYTH. Organic farming uses more gas moving heavy compost around.
But do not take my work for it, maybe Joseph D. Rosen emeritus professor of food toxicology.
"Myth #3: Organic Farming Is Better For The Environment"
This is another very true MYTH. Organic farming uses more gas moving heavy compost around.
Any large scale farming is going to be bad for the environment. You're best off buying from smaller local farms and only buying food in season, but this isn't always practical. Society itself is unsustainable, when it comes down to it. Buying organic doesn't mean anything if it's still shipped hundreds of miles to get to your produce section. Organic bananas? Talk about wasted effort. If you're really concerned about pesticides in your food, you really only need to worry about the soft-fleshed fruits like berries, peaches, etc., most other types either have relatively low sorption rates or they're a lot easier to clean (which you should always do with your food anyway).
Chemical fertilizers aren't inherently bad, but they are horribly abused. A lot of farms will buy and apply in the fall when they're cheaper, but much of this will be leached out by spring, and in the meantime it promotes the breakdown of organic matter in soils. This isn't unique to chemical fertilizers though, the same can be said of any over-application.
Chemical fertilizers aren't inherently bad, but they are horribly abused. A lot of farms will buy and apply in the fall when they're cheaper, but much of this will be leached out by spring, and in the meantime it promotes the breakdown of organic matter in soils. This isn't unique to chemical fertilizers though, the same can be said of any over-application.
Capsicum
Banned
That was very well said.