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Growing TS Morouga side-by-side with Brain Strain

Just wondering if any of the above proves anything in general.

Were the seed sources isolated seeds,from isolated plants and over how many grow outs...

I know at least 1 seed source above wasn't isolated originally and grown next to a lot of other peppers-super hot and not.

Just something to think about,not trying to rain on your parade.

Same goes for the seeds the chili institute grew.

Might have been hybrids as far as they know.

Duffy says he sent seeds from a couple plants labled as Morouga because the pods looked the same...
I don't think he grew them out for 8+ generations to see if they weren't hybrids.
I'd bet he didn't grow them for a season or 2.
Don't know how long his supplier did either...

I grew some 7 pot sr for 4 seasons in isolation that until the 4rth season looked the same.
Last year they looked like red habs with a hotter heat than regular red habs but lost the bumpy skin.
Took 4 seasons to start them to revert to whatever they were a cross of.
I'll still grow out the 5th generation to see what I get.
 
Good points, sorry to hear about your 7 Pot SR not staying true despite 4 years of isolating and care. Funny that people want to announce a new hottest in the world when this might be the case. A replicated trial is arguably not truly replicated in one generation of growing only. That would be a stringent test, the next "hottest in the world" has to be replicated across 8 generations.
 
Yeah I don't think this says much. I've had my TSMBs have totally different leaf shape from year to year. Last year they had much straighter sides and looked more 'triangular' i guess, and this year they are a bit rounder. There is a big difference in some strains for growth patterns in the same species that I've seen, I'll agree to that. My bhuts look very different from trinidad genetics plants. I'm starting to believe they are different strains but I don't think that a qualitative observation can handle this one. It would have to be a DNA test.
 
Plants within the same species can display different morphological characters. For it to work in this case, that is for differences to be potentially observable, TS Morouga and Brain Strain would need to be stabilized. Even people who work with DNA use morphological characters to distinguish between sub-species etc.
 
If same plants can display differences, then growing peppers side by side really does not prove anything. Correct?

Nice healthy looking plants though.
 
Trying to identify young plants by leaf alone is really not easy to do, leaves always vary in size and shape.
Are the brain strain and Scorpion Moruga blend not stable? If not they must be extremely close.
 
I agree it is difficult to identify plants by leaves, especially this young, but so far the photos have shown the same differences between the two. The TSM has a little bit rounder leaves (at least from these two growers), and it would be interesting to see other grower's plants to see if the same is true.

If the seeds are isolated and grow true, shouldn't all the same variety grow identical (aside from a mutation)? I know growing location and environmental factors will play into it, but that won't change leaf shape.
 
armac said:
If same plants can display differences, then growing peppers side by side really does not prove anything. Correct?

Nice healthy looking plants though.
Click to expand...


The same species does not mean the same plant, like different people are the same species but display some differences we can observe. Brain Strain and TS Morouga are the same species as far as I know (there was a hint in a thread somewhere that TS Morouga might be something else, but doesn't really matter here) and we can observe differences between these two, the point is to try to find reliable differences.


POTAWIE said:
Trying to identify young plants by leaf alone is really not easy to do, leaves always vary in size and shape.
Are the brain strain and Scorpion Moruga blend not stable? If not they must be extremely close.
Click to expand...

I hope they're stable. Some varieties are easier to tell apart than others, I don't have much experience with these two yet.

MGOLD86 said:
I agree it is difficult to identify plants by leaves, especially this young, but so far the photos have shown the same differences between the two. The TSM has a little bit rounder leaves (at least from these two growers), and it would be interesting to see other grower's plants to see if the same is true.

If the seeds are isolated and grow true, shouldn't all the same variety grow identical (aside from a mutation)? I know growing location and environmental factors will play into it, but that won't change leaf shape.
Click to expand...

Yes, the differences I was referring to above was just in response to the idea that all C. chinenses are morphologically identical and indistinguishable, which from my own limited experience can tell this is not the case. I see identifiable characteristics for many of the plants I grow... and considering the debate around the Brain Strain and the TS Morouga it would be somewhat lucky perhaps to find clearly distinguishing features. Potentially leaf shape.... as a few of us are noticing this. I'd love to hear / see pics from people who've been growing these more than a few months like me...
 
I've been lurking this page whenever I get a chance.. I too have noticed the same characteristics with my TSM and TSBS plants.. I've been trying to get around to posting some pictures but I'm always too damn busy. I'll snap some tonight.

"One being a little more round than the other has no greater meaning..."

It would be interesting to find out if that is true or not.. I'm fairly new to this hobby, really new to superhots and I will say.. out of the 9 or so types of Bhuts I'm growing they all look almost identical when it comes to appearance.. The leaves are long, slender and very pointy at the ends. I mean literally.. I can go in the grow room and pick out every bhut plant I have whether it's peach, choco, or assam (probably 40 out of the 270) just by lookin at the leaves.. I could pick out alot of other varieties just by their appearance as well, with that said It's just my opinion (which isn't much compared to the vets around here) but I have noticed little differences between plants of different species. I'll get some pictures soon.

Great pics so far :)

Brandon
 
Regarding the stability of the Brain Strain or Morouga, isn't the Brain Strain settled, at least? Cappy (PepperRidgeFarm) has been growing them for like 9 years, if I'm not mistaken? Whatever the exact number of years, I'm pretty sure it's stable! I don't know about the Morouga, but even if it turns out to be unstable, the Brain Strain, at least, is stable.


To add a point to your observations of the leaf shape, SpiceGeist, I notice that my TS Morouga leaves are rounder, as well. I am not growing Brain Strain, but I can add a third hat to the pot that the Morouga has definite morphology in the leaves that are consistent from three different growers. I will post a link to a picture of my Morouga plant shortly.
 
Definitely not 9 years, maybe 5 but not isolated
I still think they are all similar variants just like the extra bumpy Scorpion-SR, infinity, and bumpier 7 pot-SR strain. They were probably originally around 99+% stable, and the other 1% or less were likely extra bumpy and very similar although not identical
 
POTAWIE said:
Definitely not 9 years, maybe 5 but not isolated
I still think they are all similar variants just like the extra bumpy Scorpion-SR, infinity, and bumpier 7 pot-SR strain. They were probably originally around 99+% stable, and the other 1% or less were likely extra bumpy and very similar although not identical
Click to expand...


Thanks, POTAWIE! I wasn't sure the exact timeframe, but I remember reading that Cappy had been growing them for quite a number of years now, so I was pretty sure it's stable at this point.

To touch on the leaf morphology of the Morouga, here is a link to the picture I just took a few minutes ago of my Morouga plant
:

3-27-12-TrinidadScorpionMorouga.jpg
 
POTAWIE said:
Definitely not 9 years, maybe 5 but not isolated
I still think they are all similar variants just like the extra bumpy Scorpion-SR, infinity, and bumpier 7 pot-SR strain. They were probably originally around 99+% stable, and the other 1% or less were likely extra bumpy and very similar although not identical
Click to expand...

Someone made a comment about the Morouga potentially being different:
http://www.thehotpepper.com/topic/24994-brain-strain-vs-ts-morouga/page__st__20#entry569055

There might be something to this... it could be nothing but the Brain Strain plant to me resembles other 7 Pot types like the Barrackpore and the Primo more than the Morouga.
 
Hey Charles, I'm also growing Brain Strain and TS Moruga this year. The BS seeds I sent you are only 1 generation removed from Cappy's original mother plant. To date, that is still by far the hottest pod I have ever had. My TS Moruga seeds came from Scoville in 2009 (I haven't grown them until now) who got them from Chris. I swear the TS Moruga pics from the CPI test look more like Brain Strain than anything else. I'm growing both in a 5 gallon Root Pouch with 100% Pro-Mix BX so I should get a good crop from each. The TS Moruga is growing more slowly so far.
 
bigt said:
Hey Charles, I'm also growing Brain Strain and TS Moruga this year. The BS seeds I sent you are only 1 generation removed from Cappy's original mother plant. To date, that is still by far the hottest pod I have ever had. My TS Moruga seeds came from Scoville in 2009 (I haven't grown them until now) who got them from Chris. I swear the TS Moruga pics from the CPI test look more like Brain Strain than anything else. I'm growing both in a 5 gallon Root Pouch with 100% Pro-Mix BX so I should get a good crop from each. The TS Moruga is growing more slowly so far.
Click to expand...

Hi Tony, sounds good, looking forward to seeing how that TSM compares for you. I have a good number of plants going from your seed. I am keeping my eye on one plant in particular that is growing quite fast, though the others aren't too far behind either.
 
There is one super hot that has absolutely distinct leaf shape IMO...Trinidad Douglah. I can pick this variety out easily in a sea of plant. It's very unique. Another is 7 Pot Long LG. Most peppers I never could ID by leaf shape/structure.

Chris
 
That's interesting... I have a single Butch T x Douglah F2 that looks very different from the rest... I can't tell the Brain Strain from other 7 Pots, but so far I can tell it from the TS Morouga.
 
I can tell my Indian types from across the room. They have a distinct taper that is very pointy at the end. The edges of the leaves have a distinct wave to them. My bhut,carbon bhut,,brown bhut,naga morich,and even cmpmans not black naga all have this. That is if they are all true... These are all seeds that I have aquired. First year growing all of them. The leaves don't seem as fleshy to me as my 7 pots etc.

2012-03-29_21-36-15_269.jpg

2012-03-29_21-36-51_783.jpg


This bottom pic is supposed to be a 7 pot of some kind but I am leaning towards some Indian type. I know very little about this stuff just going on what I see. I am enjoying this thread. I hope the more knowledgeable folks keep contributing.
2012-03-29_21-39-58_70.jpg
 
The CARDI Hot Pepper Production Manual for Trinidad and Tobago (2007) lists both Scorpion and 7-pod as "landrace" which they define as "A population of plants mantained by farmers which is often quite variable for commercially important horticultural characteristics. They also define "Pureline" varieties as "uniform varieties, which breed true, hence farmers could keep seeds for planting their next crop. They define "variety" as "A population of plants that is homogenous for a set of characteristics that typify the variety. Varieties are typically either purelines or hybrids (F1) developed by institutions or seed companies. So a "Variety" is different than a "Landrace" in this publication. Interpret as you will, but I interpret it as "expect variability" with any 7 pod or scorpion. I guess CARDI(an institution) has been working on stabilizing these landraces to get pureline 7 pods and scorpions. I'm not sure if this helps in the debate or not, just thought I would put it out there?
 
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