HeatMiser's Keeping it Simple With Old Seeds 2020 Grow

HeatMiser · May 31, 2020

Tybo said:
Yeah I check mine. I went with the Truncheon. It was like ~$50 more than their pen at the time and had a 5yr warranty vs a 1yr warranty for the pen. It had really good reviews so that helped sway my decision. It doesn't need calibrating. I agree that the cost is up there but I didnt have to worry about it failing within 5 years anyway.
I believe I saw Peter Stanley using one in his videos and that led me to check them out.
Anyway, its simple to use, rugged, and has a 5 year warranty.

skullbiker said:
I have been using my BlueLab Truchion for 4 years now. Still working fine.

Thanks guys,

Ordered the truncheon. Will be here on Tuesday - we'll see what kind of data comes out of the solution for one of the plants.

In the meantime, I've replaced the nutrients for the Big TS and another TS that is actively growing back with a 10ml/gallon solution of CNS17. I'll replace a couple more buckets tonight. Fingers crossed.

HeatMiser · Jun 2, 2020

Well,

Perhaps I think I found one piece of the puzzle...

Source: https://site.extension.uga.edu/colquittag/2014/10/broad-mites-in-pepper/

This looks awfully similar (actually, exactly the same) as the messed up Jalapenos I posted a few weeks ago.

Does anybody have any experience with broad mites?

PaulG · Jun 2, 2020

Don’t even say that word, HM!

Never had the broad mites, but I know
they are a bearcat to deal with. If I ever
have the issue, I’ll probably try predatory
mites as a solution.

Hope that’s not the problem, but if it is,
that you find a good solution.

CaneDog · Jun 2, 2020

Glad that you have a likely ID, HM, but as PaulG alluded, I wish it were something simple to fix. I've never had to deal with them either, so no experience to contribute. There have been threads on this before, but I'm not sure about any that showed follow up to any particular treatment plan.

HeatMiser · Jun 2, 2020

PaulG said:
Don’t even say that word, HM!

Never had the broad mites, but I know
they are a bearcat to deal with. If I ever
have the issue, I’ll probably try predatory
mites as a solution.

Hope that’s not the problem, but if it is,
that you find a good solution.

CaneDog said:
Glad that you have a likely ID, HM, but as PaulG alluded, I wish it were something simple to fix. I've never had to deal with them either, so no experience to contribute. There have been threads on this before, but I'm not sure about any that showed follow up to any particular treatment plan.

Thanks guys!

Yes, the bastards seem hard to fight. I stumbled upon this little gem online:

The mite’s worst effect on your plants is the secretion of a plant growth regulator or toxin through their saliva as they feed. This ultimately can cause severe damage to your crops. Broad mite and Cyclamen feeding damage deforms and distorts young buds and leaves. Leaf edges can curl up or entire leaves can cup down, twist, crinkle, become brittle and even show signs of scarring. Internodes shorten, growing tips are stunted and overall growth is underdeveloped. Both mite species feed on young leaves and flower parts, including flower buds, which may retard your plant growth and prevent your flowers or fruits from fully developing to their potential. In the worst cases new growth can blacken and even die. The damage caused appears like fungal damage, but can also be confused with viral diseases, micronutrient or nutrient deficiencies and heat stress or pesticide injury.

http://www.gogrowhydroponics.co.uk/blog/the-rise-and-rise-of-the-dreaded-broad-mite-cyclamen-mite/

So these guys are like the Coronavirus of plants. The symptoms resemble those of practically all known diseases

.

OK, assuming I do have them, since these are not fungus, or virus, I assume that not having plants in the room for a while would remediate the issue, correct?

HeatMiser · Jun 2, 2020

Ok Truncheon arrived...

I left a Jalafuego sitting in MasterBlend just to get an idea of the nutrient concentration the other plants were sitting in. Here are the results:

Jalafuego in MasterBlend is at 1.6 EC
All other peppers are sitting in CNS17, which is at 1.1 EC.

PaulG · Jun 2, 2020

HeatMiser said:
So these guys are like the Coronavirus of plants. The symptoms resemble those of practically all known diseases .
Good one, HM

OK, assuming I do have them, since these are not fungus, or virus, I assume that not having plants in the room for a while would remediate the issue, correct?

You can id the mites with a 20x magnifier.
They are microscopically small critters.

Not sure what you mean by ‘in the room’.
Or how to get rid of them. I’m not sure even
insecticidal soap will eradicate them. From
what others have posted on the forum, they
are one of the most destructive and hard to
get rid of pests. I truly hope You don’t actually
have them.

Peppergator · Jun 2, 2020

HeatMiser said:
Does anybody have any experience with broad mites?

Just catching up on your Glog. Sorry to see your having some troubles. When I saw your plants and specifically the close of of the leaf with black specs, I thought “mites for sure”. I haven’t dealt with mites on peppers but have fought them on hemp before. I will say triage is normally my solution, however there are a few solutions to use. Also I would invest in a 20x- 60x glass lens to confirm.

Here is a post I link in DF’s Glog. Note: I have to use organic products but I do us badass one. Finally, if you go away from organic any really good soft body insecticide should do the trick. Anyways hope this helps!

Here are organic, but great, products I love and have had great success with.

M-Pede - insecticidal soap that is pretty brutal on all soft body bugs. I use it 1% for hemp, 1 - 1-2% on more sturdy plants. It will destroy your bugs.

Suffoil-X: Bioworks product, mineral oil. I spray this weekly as a preventative. Great product.

Bontanigard: Another Bioworks product, mix it in with suffoil and watch bugs BURN! Literally had mulch from dead bugs next day. Mixed with suffoil this is my main weapon.

Lost Coast Plant Therapy: wonderful alcohol and essential oil product. Solid product, 1 -2 oz per gallon so will last a long time. I eyed balled 2 oz in a 5 gallon backpack sprayer, didn’t burn my plants but fried ALL bugs even hardbody ones.

NOTE: all these products should be sprayed at dusk. Heat of the day will burn you plants.

Tip: Rotate products regularly, I noticed many bugs build tolerances to products.

My normal spray schedule is as follows.
Tuesday: Suffoil and scout for pest
Thursday: if I found pest suffoil and bontigard combo.
Saturday: If Thursday spray was not successful I’m now bringing out big guns. M-pede or Lost Coast time. These will take the oil from Suffoil off the plant and remove the protective layer, I tend to only break these products out when I have been lazy on my preventative spray or want to destroy bugs ASAP.

Hope this helps!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HeatMiser · Jun 2, 2020

PaulG said:
You can id the mites with a 20x magnifier.
They are microscopically small critters.

Not sure what you mean by ‘in the room’.
Or how to get rid of them. I’m not sure even
insecticidal soap will eradicate them. From
what others have posted on the forum, they
are one of the most destructive and hard to
get rid of pests. I truly hope Yao don’t actually
have them.

Thanks Paul. By "in the room" I meant "In the growroom" as this is an indoor grow. After reading about them a bit more I'm also hoping this is something different.

Peppergator said:
Just catching up on your Glog. Sorry to see your having some troubles. When I saw your plants and specifically the close of of the leaf with black specs, I thought “mites for sure”. I haven’t dealt with mites on peppers but have fought them on hemp before. I will say triage is normally my solution, however there are a few solutions to use. Also I would invest in a 20x- 60x glass lens to confirm.

Here is a post I link in DF’s Glog. Note: I have to use organic products but I do us badass one. Finally, if you go away from organic any really good soft body insecticide should do the trick. Anyways hope this helps!

Thanks for stopping by PG, those are some great recommendations, as well as the schedule!

I should be able to reach a more conclusive diagnosis on broad mites by the end of the week. Some growth in one TS looks OK so far, so I'll keep an eye on it and see if it stays healthy.

GhostPepperz · Jun 5, 2020

Heat Miser are you the same Heat Miser from the KSHB weather blog?

HeatMiser · Jun 5, 2020

GhostPepperz said:
Heat Miser are you the same Heat Miser from the KSHB weather blog?

Ha! No, no relationship at all

HeatMiser · Jun 5, 2020

Finally some good news and bad news...

Good News: I finally identified the problem
Bad News: It's broad mites...

Microscope arrived today. I knew I was onto something when I finally found that picture of the messed up Jalapenos. Thanks to the confirmation from Peppergator and observing how the new growth came in this week on one of my Jalafuego plants all seemed to fit into that puzzle.

Here's what that new growth looks like:

I took one of those small, thick leaves and put it under a microscope.

I initially saw some weird stuff close to the main vein of the leaf. Check the C-shaped thing close to the center of the picture

Not that far from there, I saw a mite just hanging out.... tending to what seemed to be sacs of eggs. I couldn't snap a pic of them. They move kind of fast, so it's kind of tricky to keep them in focus.

Now, decisions will have to be made about the best course of action.

I'm thinking about pulling a Khang-Starr
https://youtu.be/gpUyoMzGTx0?t=185

And spraying the stems and branches with Neem.
Another option I read online was to dunk the plants in hot water that is kept at a temperature between 41-49 Celsius. Maybe do both...

The nuclear option is also always there - call off the grow, clean everything up and wait a few weeks to let any remaining critter die before starting a new grow.

PaulG · Jun 5, 2020

HeatMiser said:
Finally some good news and bad news...

Good News: I finally identified the problem
Bad News: It's broad mites...

Microscope arrived today. I knew I was onto something when I finally found that picture of the messed up Jalapenos. Thanks to the confirmation from Peppergator and observing how the new growth came in this week on one of my Jalafuego plants all seemed to fit into that puzzle.

Here's what that new growth looks like:

I took one of those small, thick leaves and put it under a microscope.

I initially saw some weird stuff close to the main vein of the leaf. Check the C-shaped thing close to the center of the picture

Not that far from there, I saw a mite just hanging out.... tending to what seemed to be sacs of eggs. I couldn't snap a pic of them. They move kind of fast, so it's kind of tricky to keep them in focus.

Now, decisions will have to be made about the best course of action.

I'm thinking about pulling a Khang-Starr
https://youtu.be/gpUyoMzGTx0?t=185

And spraying the stems and branches with Neem.
Another option I read online was to dunk the plants in hot water that is kept at a temperature between 41-49 Celsius. Maybe do both...

The nuclear option is also always there - call off the grow, clean everything up and wait a few weeks to let any remaining critter die before starting a new grow.

Wow, those all sound like extreme options, but
I guess it’s an extreme problem. Do you have time
to start over? Maybe the leaf-stripping is the least
onerous. Khang usually has pretty good advice.

HeatMiser · Jun 5, 2020

PaulG said:
Wow, those all sound like extreme options, but
I guess it’s an extreme problem. Do you have time
to start over? Maybe the leaf-stripping is the least
onerous. Khang usually has pretty good advice.

Thanks Paul,

I know, they seem extreme, so feedback either way is appreciated. I know with these things being that small, I would definitely miss some if I spray them with Neem or something else, hence the option to remove all leaves and wait for them to come back. I don't know if these things can survive in branches or if they live exclusively on the leaves (I'll do some more research on them). The Mrs. isn't very keen on bringing in predatory mites either, haha.

Either way, part of me is relieved that this issue has been confirmed. Things are starting to make more sense now...

HeatMiser · Jun 5, 2020

These bastards...

One mite tending to a sac of eggs...

This pic shows a second mite towards the top left part of the picture...

PaulG · Jun 5, 2020

HeatMiser said:
Thanks Paul,

I know, they seem extreme, so feedback either way is appreciated. I know with these things being that small, I would definitely miss some if I spray them with Neem or something else, hence the option to remove all leaves and wait for them to come back. I don't know if these things can survive in branches or if they live exclusively on the leaves (I'll do some more research on them). The Mrs. isn't very keen on bringing in predatory mites either, haha.

Either way, part of me is relieved that this issue has been confirmed. Things are starting to make more sense now...

The predatory mites also prey on other pests.

I don’t think they would live in the house other
than on the plants, but I would need to research
that a little.

HeatMiser · Jun 6, 2020

Proverbial canary in the coal mine:

I took a small leaf from one of the growth tips, and it was COVERED in broad mites... a bunch of them just crawling around. These guys are sensitive to heat... so:

I dunked this guy in water that was heated to 115 F for 15 minutes. Scanning a few leaves from the growth tips afterwards didn't reveal any mites crawling around. Only a couple that were not moving. So this might be the route I'll be taking for now...

acs1 · Jun 6, 2020

Unfortunately, have lots of experience with broad mites. Have battled them many times for years now, in Florida they are a regular occurrence after a bout with aphid/white fly.

Fortunately, last year 'solid7' from our forum has shown me the best way to deal with them easily and successfully.

Was just a thread about them, I went into detail how to eradicate them. And yes, contrary to what you've heard/read you can spray successfully and kill every last one of them and their eggs...

Btw, don't see any clear cut pic of mites in your pics. Kill them first before scoping them (@ 40x or more) so they don't move around and it makes focus much easier till you get the hang of the scope while looking at microscopic critters... A drop of neem or dawn mixed with a few drops of water applied to leaf you're observing will do the trick immediately...

Maybe this thread will help...
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/73807-please-help-me-identofy-the-issueissues-with-my-plants/#entry1685681

HeatMiser · Jun 6, 2020

acs1 said:
Unfortunately, have lots of experience with broad mites. Have battled them many times for years now, in Florida they are a regular occurrence after a bout with aphid/white fly.

Fortunately, last year 'solid7' from our forum has shown me the best way to deal with them easily and successfully.

Was just a thread about them, I went into detail how to eradicate them. And yes, contrary to what you've heard/read you can spray successfully and kill every last one of them and their eggs...

Btw, don't see any clear cut pic of mites in your pics. Kill them first before scoping them (@ 40x or more) so they don't move around and it makes focus much easier till you get the hang of the scope while looking at microscopic critters... A drop of neem or dawn mixed with a few drops of water applied to leaf you're observing will do the trick immediately...

Maybe this thread will help...
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/73807-please-help-me-identofy-the-issueissues-with-my-plants/#entry1685681

Thanks acs!

I got a video of one of these guys: https://imgur.com/451MqN3

And yes, you are right - they are hard to take pictures of!

I think the one-two punch of hot water bath + neem oil is what I'll ultimately end up doing, spread a few days apart as per Peppergator's post. I'll see how this goes...

acs1 · Jun 6, 2020

HeatMiser said:
Thanks acs!

I got a video of one of these guys: https://imgur.com/451MqN3

And yes, you are right - they are hard to take pictures of!

I think the one-two punch of hot water bath + neem oil is what I'll ultimately end up doing, spread a few days apart as per Peppergator's post. I'll see how this goes...

Imo, wouldn't do the hot water for inside plants.
Wouldn't move the plants at all. Spray plant right in place.
Move the plants, branches, leafs, as little as possible till it gets a good coat of neem,, imo.

Every time a plant is moved you've shaken loose mites and eggs to fall on the floor, table, bench, carpet, walls, your cloths, shoes, wherever they can. Outside its not as much of a problem, but iirr your plants are all inside..? And from the looks of your pics/plants you've got broad mites real bad, maybe thousands of microscopic mites/eggs, or more, are on your plants. If a hundred mites/eggs fall off when moving plant around to dip it in hot water, you've now complicated your mite problem/eradication and duration. Thus all you've read about how hard it is to get rid of mites becomes true...

jmo