Let's say you want to go commercial... what considerations are needed?

-Pablo-

-Pablo-

What sorts of things are needed for taking a hot sauce to the commercial market in the USA? Besides a business license obviously.

Do you need FDA stamps of approval? I found this... http://www.fda.gov/F...ies/default.htm

Where do the Nutritional Information stickers come from?

What about health inspections of prep area, how is that conducted?

Are there procedural guidelines that must be followed from a regulatory standpoint?

What about Patents?

I have a few recipes that I'd like to take to the commercial market, but I definitely want to make sure I'm minding my p's and q's.
 
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-Pablo- said:
Thanks!

I also just found a co-packer nearby that will do hot fill sauces, salsa, dips, etc.. and also cold fill.

What sort of questions should I be asking?
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Questions for the co-packer are going to be really specific to your sauces my friend.

I can offer some examples:

Minumum batch sizes? Do they "mix and match" within the batch if ingredients are similar (see my example re: 400 case mins above)
Is your sauce something that needs to be ground/blended? They'll need equipment to do that, as I'd mentioned.
Do they have a background in food science?
Do they have an in house graphic artist to help you finalize the label? Do they charge for that service?
Do they prefer to use a certain bottle size? Is it the bottle you have in mind?
Do they buy the labels directly, or do you need to provide them? (mine needs me to have the labels printed and drop-shipped)
What's the turnaround on an order? (e.g. you order today and are guaranteed to get product by XX/XX/2012)
What are the terms of payment? (mine's cash on the dollar for the 1st batch, net 30 after that)
Can they warehouse your product or do you need to pick it up or have it drop shipped?
Can they do organic? (if applicable/if you want to try to be in that space)
How long have they been in business - can they give you examples of brands they manufacture? You don't want to put all your eggs into a company that'll be gone tomorrow.
What is their charge/minimums for their test batch process?
Can they do overwrap? What type?
Any post-production offerings? (little recipe card around the neck, plastic spiders, etc - some products have this stuff - you may want to, you may not)

I'm sure you'll come up with some of your own as well, but that's a decent start? The more you ask, the more you'll know about them. The reason my 3rd co-packer was a success (so far) was because I knew what questions to ask, so it's a hugely important step in the process. I spoke to about 10 on the phone before getting the right answers from one.

Also, do you have any funky/difficult to source or process ingredients? For example, vinegar is easy. Some off-brand expensive gourmet vinegar is not. Just an example of course, but hopefully you get my meaning - it might not be a deal killer but be prepared to work with the co-packer to hash these things out.

Which means asking up front if they're willing to be a participant in that process - you don't want to be in business with someone who isn't willing to participate in product development. Producing at scale is a costly endeavor and you want to compromise enough that it's affordable to make without compromising so much that your product isn't what you wanted to make.

uh, hopefully that made sense...
 
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Helping 2 for the price of 1...COOL!

Might be a bit confusing to some, but both Pablo and Stemwinder have been getting great info. Hope it's not too confusing to read. :cool:

one other thing to add to luckydog'g great info-
most co-packers won't let you bring your own ingredients to the show. Unless it's something like a specific pepper you grew (or purchased) that is not available through commercial channels, often they won't let you bring common items in to their licensed facility. Probably won't let you bring in your home grown onions, (even though your home grown onions are probably 10 times more healthy than commercially grown onions... :crazy: ) If they can't verify the source, they may deny it for liability reasons.

Usually not a deal breaker, but it's just good to know what to expect.

Also, after you've found a good co-packer that seems to fit what you need....go visit the facility if at all humanly possible!!! You need to see where your food is being processed, and if possible, I would be there during processing to make sure it's done and something doesn't get mis-interpreted from the recipe.

Something as simple as braising -vs sauteing...some employee may not understand a process you specify. You'd think everyone would know the difference between blanch and boil....but that's not always the case. It's your money on the line, watch it like a hawk.

Have Fun, everyone! If it ain't fun, it's just a job.
SL
 
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Hey salsalady - want to make it 3 for one? hahaha

I was snooping your site (not a stalker, just a sauce junkie!) and noticed that you list the cider vinegar as an ingredient. Is that necessary, or just something you volunteer? I ask because I use apple cider vinegar for a couple of my recipes and want to make sure it's listed correctly when I get to the point of finalizing my labels.

Any insight appreciated, thanks!

-Scott
 
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Hey Lucky Dog Scott,

Whether to list it as "cider vinegar" or just "vinegar" is up to your licensing authority. If they don't care how you list it, then it's up to you.

I've always listed it as such, just on the off chance someone might be allergic to it (never heard of that, but ya never know...) or maybe someone has a personal dislike of cider vinegar, which does have a different flavor than white vinegar. There are some people who dislike the flavor of cider vin and won't buy a product made with it. I'd rather loose a sale with accurate ingredients on the label than have a ticked off customer feeling like they got ripped off cuz the label didn't say "cider". Just my own opinion about accurately labeling ingredients... (....but don't ask me what are the "spices"...;) )

I also have a brother-in-law who is deathly allergic to onions in any form. It's was an eye opener when he got puking-guts sick from a simple dip mix that had a little onion powder in it. That has made me more aware of how some people can react to the slightest amount of whatever they are allergic to.

The FDA does have a pretty good list of allergens and what must be listed. WA state does also, and that's what I follow. Anything that contains tamari (a type of soy sauce that many folks may not have heard of) I put "Contains SOY" on the label.

I also use balsamic vinegar in some salad dressings, and for those, I have to list it if it's made from "grape must" and "contains sulfites". So I spend the extra$$ to buy a balsamic vinegar that doesn't say that on the label.


Make Sure you consult the licensing authority before having your final labels printed. If you're using a co-packer, they should be able to either- take responsibility for the accuracy of the label and tell you what needs to be on the label -OR- they should be able to tell you WHO has the final authority to dictate what goes on the label.

Also make sure that you have the accurate contact information as required by your AHJ. Some require name and phone, some physical address, some mailing address, for some a website with all that info available 24/7 is OK.....you don't want to be hand writing your phone number on 5000 labels because you didn't have the right info. :doh:

hope this helps-
salsalady Ann
 
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Thanks S.L. Ann!

I'm actually still very much a hobby right now while working towards "going pro". I don't reaaaally sell sauce, but I do charge "handling" and actual shipping charges for uh, samples. But I do try to label my product as accurately as possible. My batches are like ~50 bottles and I ship about 35 per batch, while donating another 15 or so to charitable causes (mostly sending sauce care packages to soldiers in the middle east)

The co-packer already confirmed that they're responsible for the label content, so for sure I'll have them proof it prior to giving the go-ahead to have 'em printed. This gives me one more thing to look for though, so I really appreciate your taking the time to help. The last thing I need at this point is several thousand useless labels cuz they're printed wrong. heh

I'd don't recall having seen that before - and I agree that the cider vinegar has a much different flavor, but I love the complexity it adds. I've not yet had anyone complain about the recipes that have it, so maybe they just don't notice. But I'll likely go your route and include it. Better to have the info and not need it than to need it and not have it!

L.D. Scott
:D
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
Thanks S.L. Ann!

I'm actually still very much a hobby right now while working towards "going pro". I don't reaaaally sell sauce, but I do charge "handling" and actual shipping charges for uh, samples. But I do try to label my product as accurately as possible. My batches are like ~50 bottles and I ship about 35 per batch, while donating another 15 or so to charitable causes (mostly sending sauce care packages to soldiers in the middle east)

The co-packer already confirmed that they're responsible for the label content, so for sure I'll have them proof it prior to giving the go-ahead to have 'em printed. This gives me one more thing to look for though, so I really appreciate your taking the time to help. The last thing I need at this point is several thousand useless labels cuz they're printed wrong. heh

I'd don't recall having seen that before - and I agree that the cider vinegar has a much different flavor, but I love the complexity it adds. I've not yet had anyone complain about the recipes that have it, so maybe they just don't notice. But I'll likely go your route and include it. Better to have the info and not need it than to need it and not have it!

L.D. Scott
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Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about the hot sauce swap! I've got a few on hand now that I'd love to do a trade with. I'll drop you an email now. :)
 
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Hi, I have a free acre here in Dallas and I also was interested in some of this info

what about selling/trading seeds starting from a small scale then thinking larger is it really all that profitable?
gambling on the weather & what you are growing/selling is this a business I can reinvest and make money on or no?
 
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Wow - blast from the past. Amazing the difference since January, since I'm a full on business now. :woohoo:


Sorry bluewolfy - was just enjoying the moment...it was a little surreal and I got slightly misty eyed.

Believe it or not I was in ag/hort for the 1st 1/3 of my career. It was my major in school and specifically the applied sciences aspect (greenhouse and field management).

To answer your question, you can absolutely make money off of an acre.

BUT

You need to have a lot go right for that to happen. And a lot of what you need to go right is completely outside of your control.

1. weather
2. planning your business/crops
3. sales and volitility - when I worked on a farm we were hooked into the local farmer's market. And every weekend the owner would send us home with grocery bags full of the food she couldn't sell as our "bonus" (really part of our pay).
4. See #3: if you're growing a single crop it can be very difficult to sell it all before it goes bad. In Holland we had about 1 acre of dyke to grow on - my boss did perrenials, and was very smart - he diversified. Crops matured at different rates and he always had a mix of products to sell. If I were to do an acre of hot peppers, I'd probably do as large a mix as possible.
5. cost - sunlight in TX is free. That's a good thing. Shade cloth (seedlings), water, labor - these are not free. It will cost $ to maintain and harvest that acre. Tractors and tilling equipment, pesticides and fertilizer - none of this is free. You need to do the math to see if you can make money.

There's an awesome "interview" posted here somewhere (it's kinda tongue in cheek) - kind of a "so you want to grow hot peppers" sort of thing. I think it's in the Lounge? It's essentially someone who interviewed a grower to ask this same question. hilarious and informative article. I'll see if I can find the link and will post it. it will provide you a wealth of information. :cheers:

grrr. can't find it and have to run an errand - I'll check again later.
 
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Still can't find it. Might be in "hot pepper talk"

Another consideration for you is this:
Why start from seed?

After I adopted my dog, then a 4 month old rescue, I told my friend's "there's no such thing as a free puppy."

So I have to apply that here to what I know from my hort days. Free seeds are great when you're growing a back yard garden.

When talking about a commercial endeavor, how much does a free seed cost?
Do you have
1. Greenhouse
2. Pots & soil for transplanting
3. Snail bait to protect seedlings
4. Shade cloth or whitewash?
5. Labor (transplanting seedlings is a LOT of work - I remember from the years I worke in a commercial nursery.
6. Loss - you will lose plants. You could be mother nature & the jolly green giant's love child and 10-15% of your babies are gonna croak
7. Weather. Sprouts & seedlings are far more tender than young-to-mature plants - one good frost & your entire seedling crop could be destroyed if no greenhouse. Then your "free" seeds just cost you thousands in pots, soil, labor to date, fertilizer, etc, etc.

Just food for thought. I'll see if I can get you that link.

Found it.

Answers all your questions & more with some $$$ figures on what it would take to grow a hectare of peppers.

http://www.fiery-foods.com/article-archives/88-humor/3176-so-you-want-to-be-a-pepper-farmer

Written with humor but it's spot on in terms of keeping it real & risk factors.
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
Still can't find it. Might be in "hot pepper talk"

Another consideration for you is this:
Why start from seed?

After I adopted my dog, then a 4 month old rescue, I told my friend's "there's no such thing as a free puppy."

So I have to apply that here to what I know from my hort days. Free seeds are great when you're growing a back yard garden.

When talking about a commercial endeavor, how much does a free seed cost?
Do you have
1. Greenhouse
2. Pots & soil for transplanting
3. Snail bait to protect seedlings
4. Shade cloth or whitewash?
5. Labor (transplanting seedlings is a LOT of work - I remember from the years I worke in a commercial nursery.
6. Loss - you will lose plants. You could be mother nature & the jolly green giant's love child and 10-15% of your babies are gonna croak
7. Weather. Sprouts & seedlings are far more tender than young-to-mature plants - one good frost & your entire seedling crop could be destroyed if no greenhouse. Then your "free" seeds just cost you thousands in pots, soil, labor to date, fertilizer, etc, etc.

Just food for thought. I'll see if I can get you that link.

Found it.

Answers all your questions & more with some $$$ figures on what it would take to grow a hectare of peppers.

http://www.fiery-foo...a-pepper-farmer

Written with humor but it's spot on in terms of keeping it real & risk factors.
Click to expand...

I don't care what the others say about you, you're a smart dog!
 
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Thanks for all the info

#1) I plan on building a greenhouse as soon as the weather cools down a tad
It's just too freakin hot here in Dallas to construct anything myself right now.
#2) not an issue that's easy beans.
#3) do what?
#6) I'm not real happy after reading that
#7) worries me the most...the Texas Sun withers all my cheaper peppers and collecting rain water is a rare occasion.



I am getting plenty of seeds from all you generous pepper heads
so I guess I will see how it goes..

1 seed at a time
 
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Yeah - I didn't mean it as a definitive list - I didn't even mention bugs - lots of them want to much on the pretty leaves and destroy your babies.

There are a zillion more unpredictable things that can happen when dealing with living things ad betting on nature.

What kind of soil do you have? Is it heavy clay or sandy loam? Does it need supplements to balance the N-P-K? Just sayin - you'll need to know a heck of a lot more than I can tell ya just to grow 'em.

Then With just the right combination of skill & luck you'll have an acre of peppers to harvest and then you'll need to sell 'em before they rot.
:cheers:

There's plenty of people who do it an do it successfully. I'm hoping one of them chimes in with insight on the pepper growing business.

Check that link I posted. You'll get a lot more there than from me! :cheers:
 
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three major questions you have to ask yourself...

1. do you have a business plan?

2. do you have a market?

3. have you performed a cost/benefit analysis?

as far as the pepper growing business goes....DO NOT EVER PLANT A SEED UNLESS YOU ALREADY HAVE A BUYER UNDER CONTRACT
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
There's an awesome "interview" posted here somewhere (it's kinda tongue in cheek) - kind of a "so you want to grow hot peppers" sort of thing. I think it's in the Lounge? It's essentially someone who interviewed a grower to ask this same question. hilarious and informative article. I'll see if I can find the link and will post it. it will provide you a wealth of information. :cheers:

grrr. can't find it and have to run an errand - I'll check again later.
Click to expand...
I thought I read that in this thread, I guess not.

Congrats on the LD Hot sauce launch as well.
 
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