fertilizer Need some help on a fertilizer program. How much to use and when to use.

[stickman]

A good book to read that's probably available through your local library is "The Intelligent Gardener: how to grow nutrient-dense Food" by Steve Soloman with Erica Reinheimer. His take is to "remineralize" the soil to replace any of the nutes that may have leached out over time, but to get a really accurate soil test done first so you only add what's needed, and not what isn't.

 

[stickman]

A good book to read that's probably available through your local library is "The Intelligent Gardener: how to grow nutrient-dense Food" by Steve Soloman with Erica Reinheimer. His take is to "remineralize" the soil to replace any of the nutes that may have leached out over time, but to get a really accurate soil test done first so you only add what's needed, and not what isn't.

 

[stickman]

A good book to read that's probably available through your local library is "The Intelligent Gardener: how to grow nutrient-dense Food" by Steve Soloman with Erica Reinheimer. His take is to "remineralize" the soil to replace any of the nutes that may have leached out over time, but to get a really accurate soil test done first so you only add what's needed, and not what isn't.

 

[Powelly]

Just compost some fine wood chips from your local council / arborist and grow in that

 

[Codeman]

 
Why on earth do you want so much Phosphate and Potassium?  What do you expect this to accomplish?

I talked to my local garden center and he said don't use the potash and phosphate. That stuff is for fall crops and things in the ground. So I'll probably be looking for more organic stuff. And yes the aphids problem is too much manure. Should I stick with mushroom compost instead?

 

[Codeman]

 
Let's not confuse things, here.  The eggshell post was a direct reference to acs1's post.  If you're in NC, you would want Gypsum to help break up clay soil, more than anything.  It has no real place in container culture, though.  Others might disagree, but that's a fairly well accepted idea in gardening circles...

yup located in Greensboro NC. So for calcium I want to use lime but fear it would mess with my soil pH too much. Or is calcium nitrate better? Also I got BER on my scorpions but maybe that is due to inconsistent watering rather than a calcium problem?

 

[solid7]

A good book to read that's probably available through your local library is "The Intelligent Gardener: how to grow nutrient-dense Food" by Steve Soloman with Erica Reinheimer. His take is to "remineralize" the soil to replace any of the nutes that may have leached out over time, but to get a really accurate soil test done first so you only add what's needed, and not what isn't.

 
That's actually excellent advice for growing in soil, but the problem is, container culture doesn't really translate that well, for a myriad of reasons. (Which I won't go into unless leaned on)
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We grow in relatively inert media, so that we have better control of the variables.  Conditions dictate more of our grow in containers, than do Ns, Ps, and Ks.

 

[solid7]

Just compost some fine wood chips from your local council / arborist and grow in that

 
In our neck of the woods, you're more likely to find composted/aged pine bark.  And it's an excellent growing media.  One of the best I've ever used, in fact.
 

I talked to my local garden center and he said don't use the potash and phosphate. That stuff is for fall crops and things in the ground. So I'll probably be looking for more organic stuff. And yes the aphids problem is too much manure. Should I stick with mushroom compost instead?

 
That's exactly right.  Phosphate takes time to break down in soil.  And there's more biomass, hence more microbial colonization, and more biodiversity.  You will literally not in a thousand years get rock phosphate to break down in a container, short of making the media so acidic, that it won't grow a plant.
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Mushroom compost is composted horse manure. (along with bedding)  It's too heavy to use straight, because you get too much rain.  If you lived in a desert, I'd say go for it.
 

yup located in Greensboro NC. So for calcium I want to use lime but fear it would mess with my soil pH too much. Or is calcium nitrate better? Also I got BER on my scorpions but maybe that is due to inconsistent watering rather than a calcium problem?

 
Calcium is totally unnecessary for soil anywhere on the East Coast.  For containers, different story.  What is your current pH?
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Calcium nitrate is not readily available.  Useless.  You'll have better results with Epsom or calcium acetate. (vinegar and eggshells)
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BER is commonly caused by heavy rain, and disruption of nutrient uptake.  But I can't say that authoritatively, without knowing your story.  What have you fed it so far? (for calcium supplementation)  Containers, right?

 

[Codeman]

 
In our neck of the woods, you're more likely to find composted/aged pine bark.  And it's an excellent growing media.  One of the best I've ever used, in fact.
 
 
That's exactly right.  Phosphate takes time to break down in soil.  And there's more biomass, hence more microbial colonization, and more biodiversity.  You will literally not in a thousand years get rock phosphate to break down in a container, short of making the media so acidic, that it won't grow a plant.
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Mushroom compost is composted horse manure. (along with bedding)  It's too heavy to use straight, because you get too much rain.  If you lived in a desert, I'd say go for it.
 
 
Calcium is totally unnecessary for soil anywhere on the East Coast.  For containers, different story.  What is your current pH?
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Calcium nitrate is not readily available.  Useless.  You'll have better results with Epsom or calcium acetate. (vinegar and eggshells)
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BER is commonly caused by heavy rain, and disruption of nutrient uptake.  But I can't say that authoritatively, without knowing your story.  What have you fed it so far? (for calcium supplementation)  Containers, right?

Yes we get heavy rains. Just enough to disrupt. I just feed it gypsum when it needs it. For pH I use the 3 pronged pH,moist and light level thing I got from Lowe's. Don't know how accurate it really is.so I can use Epsom salt in place of calcium nitrate? I haven't checked my current pH. So instead of mushroom compost what should I use in place?

 

[Codeman]

I also have been flushing my soil due to all the fertilizer I've been putting down. My Carolina reapers have been exploding with pods.

 

[solid7]

Yes we get heavy rains. Just enough to disrupt. I just feed it gypsum when it needs it. For pH I use the 3 pronged pH,moist and light level thing I got from Lowe's. Don't know how accurate it really is.so I can use Epsom salt in place of calcium nitrate? I haven't checked my current pH. So instead of mushroom compost what should I use in place?

 
For disruption of calcium uptake, you do nothing.  Just wait.  Or, if you know it's going to happen, you can foliar spray.  That's the stop gap. 
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Sorry, I'm high.  No.  Epsom isn't a replacement for calcium nitrate.  There's no calcium in it, at all.  I just got ahead of myself, or misread, or...  whatever.  Calcium nitrate isn't readily available for uptake.  It's quick acting, but nothing beats calcium acetate for immediate use.
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There's a couple things going on in this thread.  Do you intend to top dress with mushroom compost, or fully plant out in it?

 

[Codeman]

 
For disruption of calcium uptake, you do nothing.  Just wait.  Or, if you know it's going to happen, you can foliar spray.  That's the stop gap. 
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Sorry, I'm high.  No.  Epsom isn't a replacement for calcium nitrate.  There's no calcium in it, at all.  I just got ahead of myself, or misread, or...  whatever.  Calcium nitrate isn't readily available for uptake.  It's quick acting, but nothing beats calcium acetate for immediate use.
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There's a couple things going on in this thread.  Do you intend to top dress with mushroom compost, or fully plant out in it?

oh top dress it. I just want to reduce the aphids next year. So my best bet for BER would be to take some calcium acetate and mix it in a gallon sprayer and folar feed and then stop at that point?

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Calcium nitrate is readily available. Its the main source of calcium in CalMag. Its calcium carbonate treated with nitric acid and water soluble. What do you think a bag of CalMag powder is?

 

[Codeman]

Calcium nitrate is readily available. Its the main source of calcium in CalMag. Its calcium carbonate treated with nitric acid and water soluble. What do you think a bag of CalMag powder is?

Ok so I add calcium nitrate on the first signs of BER. Have you tried cottonseed meal?

 

[podz]

 
Pfffft.
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You don't drop your nitrogen to non-growth levels, for that.  You simply limit the types of nitrogen.  If you don't want aphids,you want to keep a low percentage of nitrogen derived from Urea.  In other words, don't go nuts on manure.

 
Isn't Urea derived from urine and not from manure?
 
In any case, at the beginning of the season I cover my large dirt boxes with pelletized chicken shit (only once per year). Never had any aphid problems, though many growers around here do. I also grow chives or garlic in every single box or pot as companion plants and strategically place pots of marigolds around my growing areas.
 
One thing is for sure: if you don't want aphids then do not have roses or berry plants (blackberry, raspberry, etc) anywhere near your growing area. Roses are the worst for causing massive aphid infestations and should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

 

[solid7]

Isn't Urea derived from urine and not from manure?

Sure, but there's urea in every manure product that I'm aware of. If you scrape cowshit from a feedlot, how do you separate #1 space, from #2 space?
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Even more so when you consider chicken manure. Birds drop both products in the same package.

In any case, at the beginning of the season I cover my large dirt boxes with pelletized chicken shit (only once per year). Never had any aphid problems, though many growers around here do. I also grow chives or garlic in every single box or pot as companion plants and strategically place pots of marigolds around my growing areas.
 
One thing is for sure: if you don't want aphids then do not have roses or berry plants (blackberry, raspberry, etc) anywhere near your growing area. Roses are the worst for causing massive aphid infestations and should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

If you live in the subtropics or tropics, hibiscus and jatropha is the equivalent. Hibiscus invites massive whitefly and aphid infestations, and jatropha brings scale and whitefly.

 

[solid7]

Ok so I add calcium nitrate on the first signs of BER.

It literally does no good. If you don't have the calcium, you get BER. But if you have a BER caused by heavy rains or other disruption, no amount of calcium addition is going to correct it. You have to wait it out, until normal delivery service resumes. Sorry, that's the fact.

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Ok so I add calcium nitrate on the first signs of BER. Have you tried cottonseed meal?

 

BER should not be treated reactively when possible. Be proactive instead of reactive. Just keep a good source of slow release calcium available all the time and the occasional supplemental. Its a little more work in pots vs soil. Calcium nitrate is a salt so use in moderation. A 4lb bag is cheap and plenty for several seasons if just used as a source of calcium. That CalMag powder i posted is only around $8.50 for a 750 gram bag. You use very very little per gallon of water.
 
Never tried cotton seed meal. It looks good too but it can lower pH. I can get alfalfa meal cheap..... $20ish per 50 pounds cheap. 5 pounds or so is enough to cover 100sqft or a cubic yard of potting mix for a couple months.

 

[Codeman]

 
BER should not be treated reactively when possible. Be proactive instead of reactive. Just keep a good source of slow release calcium available all the time and the occasional supplemental. Its a little more work in pots vs soil. Calcium nitrate is a salt so use in moderation. A 4lb bag is cheap and plenty for several seasons if just used as a source of calcium. That CalMag powder i posted is only around $8.50 for a 750 gram bag. You use very very little per gallon of water.
 
Never tried cotton seed meal. It looks good too but it can lower pH. I can get alfalfa meal cheap..... $20ish per 50 pounds cheap. 5 pounds or so is enough to cover 100sqft or a cubic yard of potting mix for a couple months.

So when do you use the calmag and how often? Also alfalfa meal,where can I get it? Do you use it in place of manure?

 

[solid7]

So when do you use the calmag and how often? Also alfalfa meal,where can I get it? Do you use it in place of manure?

 
Cal-Mag isn't slow release.  It's something that should be used more in a hydroponics application.  Instead, opt for calcium as part of a continuous feeding regimen.  Whether that be organic, or slow release ferts. (like Osmocote)
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If you have dolomitic lime in your media to buffer peat, you shouldn't need extra supplementation.  But nevertheless, it should be part of any complete fertilizer.
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So, even though you stated at the beginning, that you don't want to just lay down ferts or organic food, it's still the very best option, for containers.  Unless you're going to grow indoors, and then you'll (maybe or maybe not) want a complete liquid nutrient.
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If you're going to use alfalfa meal, get it on Amazon.  If you're near a rural area, just lay down straight alfalfa hay.