Parick's SBJ7

[GA Growhead]

Patrick, maybe i was the confused one. I have read, on thp, that numerous people save the seeds from the best looking pods off of individual plants, because choosing that particular awesome pod, verse the the less desirable pods from the same plant, ment the next generation would more likely match that awesome pod saved.
Not saying you said this. Just have seen it written.
As icebarker stated, it shouldn't matter which pod you use off that particular plant with the awesome pod, all the pods from the plant should be carring the same genetic trait for pod shape as long as the seeds are isolated.
So he was saying the same thing as you, just clarifying that the plant choice, not individual pod choice, is what matters.
And from my research this appears true, if the plant is stable.
So i was originally thinking...
If a hab thru out a stringer pod, and you saved, planted and grew out those seeds, would any of the plants show more stingers? Or if a butch T plant makes only half pefect pods and you save seeds from the pefect pods, will those grow out more perfectly podded plants? How much does the environment affect shape and how much is genetically when you get slightly to moderately varying pods?

Someone said Alabama jack made his scorps better by choosing the best pods. From my research he really chose the best plants, not the best pods. And when breeding anything, the selections made are very important. AJ definitely seems to know his stuff, his scorps looked amazing.
So, i guess, i was the only one that really wanted to know, for sure, after coming to my own conclusion, if i was right or wrong, about the individual pods themselves, carrying or not carrying different genetic data foward to combine with the pollen it receives.
I am really sorry if i came off like a total bunk this morning, i am dealing with constant back pain and the pain meds make me even more irritable. Oh the joy! So i apologize if it came out with a bad tone.
I did think we were asking the same question, but i see you are correct as i reread the previous page.
Thanks for the link though, i will put this question foward to them for my own sanity and will report back with an answer.
Take care, and...
i hope to grow a SBJ7 one day.
& still waiting to see another pod pict! Hook a brother up!

 

[patrick]

No worries GA.

What confused and still maybe confuses me a little is the difference between choosing the best pod versus the best plant. For all practical purposes, my thinking, the best pods are going to come from the best plants. But that's not always true is it? In my way of thinking if I had two plants, A is huge and healthy and covered with pods but there are only a few that have the traits I like and plant B which isn't as nice or healthy but the majority of pods have the traits I want I'm going with B. In my thinking my odds of getting pods with liked traits are going to be better with pods from B.

Sorry to hear about your back. Been there done that.

I couldn't tell you if AJ chose plants over pods. I'm thinking it was the other way around though. When ever he spoke about next years seeds he always chose specific pods. Now those could have all came from the same plant I just don't recall reading that.

I have some F1 SB7J seeds, from the original plant if you want some. That goes to anyone. The seeds came from open pollinated pods though so it's possible they are crossed. Guess you won't know until you grow them out. That's half the fun of grow peppers anyway.

I encourage you to email the CPI your questions. They seemed genuinely interested every time I contact them. Heck I was yacking back and forth with Dr Bosland for a bit a while back.

Send me a PM with your address if you want the SB7J seeds.

Here's another pic for ya GA.

 

[icebarker]

Hold on a sec. I don't recall being focused on the traits of one lone pod that is different from every other pod on a plant and trying to propagate that trait.

I was .. mhm. I was replying to meatfreak's post where he mentioned just one plant, and stating that he used the seeds from the pods that looked best. That's what I was discussing with you, right?^^ At least i did discuss if different looking pods from the same plant can make a difference (if only self pollinated).
I am very sorry if a started confusion here. I, for my part, am very confused right now




Liebe Grüße

 

[Sownseeds]

Hi Guys , very interesting reading, but i have a question a little of the topic, patrick you said in a pm once that to isolate you use wedding Tulle, , i would like to isolate the sb7j plants that i have,
But went down to the local fabric shop to buy some tulle and noticed that the tulle wasnt as fine as i thought it would be , so i have bought some big organza bags from ebay.
my thinking was that although both tulle and the organza bags would stop the bees from cross pollinating, what about wind blowing the pollen around , wouldnt the pollen get through the tulle way to easy compared to the tiny meshed organza bags?

I have noticed alot of growers use both , and was wondering what is the best to use .

 

[Trippa]

@GA grow head .... not all pods would be carrying identical genetics even off the same plant. It would Be a mixture of both parents DNA to some degree. Even a stable strain will have small genetic variations pod to pod its simply how nature works.
I could grow 30 scotch bonnets from the same plant all different seed from individual pods and I would be 100% sure you would get some some variation in the phenotype of the resulting plants. This could be growth habit, vigour, shape of pods, or colour.
It is all to do with recessive and dominant genes and a thing called a punnet square.
Growing up on a farm you see genetic variations in stable breeds of animals on a regular basis. Its simply when the mix of genetics is just right to allow a recessive trait show instead.

http://www.thechileman.org/guide_crossing_peppers.php

That article is written in a less education style format and is easy to understand and illustrate my point

 

[patrick]

This is the thread of confusion. Where's Phil when we need him? I've come to realize that I'm usually in a confused state so it feels natural. No apologies needed from anyone please.

SS yes I've used tulle exclusively but can't say it's perfect for the job. To get something fine enough to keep blown pollen out I'm not sure if light would get through? That's supposed to be funny. I'm thinking about the only 100% way of keeping foreign pollen off of any plant would be to grow only one type and keep it miles and miles away from any other pepper and still wrap them in tulle. I doubt if there is any type of standard that has to be met to call a seed isolated. We can only do so much.

 

[Trippa]

Put it this way if I want pods with stingers I sure as hell won't be saving seeds from a pod that doesn't have a stinger even though the plant it came off had 95% of pods on with stingers.

 

[millworkman]

Put it this way if I want pods with stingers I sure as hell won't be saving seeds from a pod that doesn't have a stinger even though the plant it came off had 95% of pods on with stingers.

Agreed!

 

[patrick]

Put it this way if I want pods with stingers I sure as hell won't be saving seeds from a pod that doesn't have a stinger even though the plant it came off had 95% of pods on with stingers.

You be preaching to the choir.

Thanks longpepperpen15. It is a pretty thing isn't it?

 

[GA Growhead]

Trippa, i totally agree. I thought i expressed that on the previous page. Letting one plant self pollinate, you still get a mix of its chromosomes on the egg and on the pollen side, combining to give you a slighty different plant, or variables if not stable. Each seeds holding its own.
We can only selected by what we can see. We do not know what hidden genetic data is being passed foward, so we base our selection upon what is expressed. Like the better pod shaped. But it's no guarantee.
There is always a chance that the best looking scorp pod could produce hab like podded plants. But that chance is small... well... not really that small if you are mass marketing them as the worlds h0ttest. Whoops! Did i just say that? Ok im joking. Or not. ? But you get my point. And i also agree... i really think it's the recessive genes that make things special. After F2s you get into the good stuff when crossing.

Patrick, thanks for the offer. How about i hit up at the end of this season and let you fine tune for another generation.
The pods really do look amazing! Like evil red mushrooms with a lovely texture.
Thanks for the pict!
Great discussion.
Take care everyone.

 

[patrick]

GA feel free to hit me up for seeds anytime. I do have a few F2 seeds in the dirt as we speak. I may have to multiply the current price by the "F" number though.

 

[Sownseeds]

Hi guys , well the plants starting to pod up heaps now with some knarly shaped pods..

Cheers.

 

[GA Growhead]

Those are way gnarley!

 

[patrick]

Those are so money. Thanks for sharing.

Were those F1 or F2 seeds or do you know?

 

[Sanarda]

Patrick I will buy some SBJ7 seeds from you. I am interested in how they grow/taste. I would also take my hand at trying to isolate as I have never isolated before.

 

[Dulac]

Alabama Jack refined his scorpions with seeds from the individual pods with the traits he wants. Not whole plants.


It seems to work for him Partick.....

He must have done it with different plants too. It's too bad he was not made aware that individual plants are the factor rather than pods (would have saved him some time). If the plant is stable and not crosses, then all of its offspring are genetically the same. The reason you see different shapes within the same plant is due to environmental factors rather than genetic.

I did observe Mendel was referring to peas and was leaning towards them being similar to peppers since they can both self pollinate. I know, nothing scientific about that. I'm spending half my time looking up definitions of words being used. I'm certain it's much more complicated but then I'm going to have trouble understanding and expressing what I find.

Unfortunately pepper genetics are extremely messy, which is typical with most plants (peas are an exception). In comparison peas are extraordinarily simple. Because peas are rather simple (probably why Mendel picked them), his research can be misleading. Genetics are way more complicated than a dominate/recessive binary (co-dominance etc.). To make things more difficult many traits are made up of more than one gene. For instance, one very sought after trait, capsaicin or other capsinoids, is made up of multiple genes. I wish it was easier so we could make more accurate predictions for breeding!

maybe this will make since.
you cross parent 1 with parent 2 you get a fruit that has F1 seed.
you isolate this seed and you grow out that F1 seed and chose the fruit you like the best That seed is a F2
you conntinue to do this kepping each generation isolated. once you get to F8 then you should have a stable seed and the seed will produce the same type that you want.

F1 seeds have the same genes as each other (this is what they sell as hybrids for plants). They will reproduce the same results over and over from crossing x parent with y parent. You start selecting during the F2 stage (this is were each seed is genetically different).

Patrick, your question to them doesn't state specifically about selecting an individual pod that shows a certain characteristic, that other pods on the same plant do not show, like choosing a scorpion tailed pod verses a more hab like pod on the same plant. And doing so to achieve the scorp shape in the next generation. The response you got is generally selecting plants to carry foward traits, which we already know works. I don't think they understood what we really want to know.

You're right. Early on I asked a botanist, who specializes in capscium, if pods were genetically different. He told me that they are genetically the same. I still use that college to grow my chiles and talk to him about pepper hybridization and genetics.

 

[Sownseeds]

Those are so money. Thanks for sharing.

Were those F1 or F2 seeds or do you know?

Hi Patrick well brandon sent me a few strains from some of the growers on THP. when i asked what the SB7J was he sent me this in a pm......

SB7J (patrick) - Amazing flavor, has that great scotch bonnet flavor but hits you in the face with the 7Jonah heat. One of the best I've tried as well. If you can.. collect ALOT of seeds from this guy. There is maybe 3-5 people trying to keep this strain alive, Patrick himself failed this year I'm pretty sure so not only would he like to hear your growing them but I'd love to see you keep this guy off the endangered species list. It's debut was 2011 so it is a very new stain.

Im pretty sure he grew them out and sent me some seeds from his pods, so id say there f2. but if not then they would be f1 from seeds he had left over , ither way im stoked that he shared them with me..some of the pods its throwing out is amazing looking bumpy scary looking things.. plants about 4 ft tall now and the pollen it throws out from the flowers when i touch it with my fingers is amazing.

Im Don't know much when it comes to genetics of peppers , but here is 2 pics of pods from the same plant , its a moruga thats throwing out some pods that look like the red pod and some pods that kinda look like a moruga top with a huge stinger tail , Its funny because the pods that have taken on the red pods shape are all starting to ripen up first and the ones with the tail havnt started to ripen yet there all still growing. im going to collect seeds from both and keep the seperated and grow out next season, any ideas as to what this plant maybe has been crossed with , could it be a moruga x primo ??

 

[Chilinferno]

Hi Patrick well brandon sent me a few strains from some of the growers on THP. when i asked what the SB7J was he sent me this in a pm......

SB7J (patrick) - Amazing flavor, has that great scotch bonnet flavor but hits you in the face with the 7Jonah heat. One of the best I've tried as well. If you can.. collect ALOT of seeds from this guy. There is maybe 3-5 people trying to keep this strain alive, Patrick himself failed this year I'm pretty sure so not only would he like to hear your growing them but I'd love to see you keep this guy off the endangered species list. It's debut was 2011 so it is a very new stain.

Im pretty sure he grew them out and sent me some seeds from his pods, so id say there f2. but if not then they would be f1 from seeds he had left over , ither way im stoked that he shared them with me..some of the pods its throwing out is amazing looking bumpy scary looking things.. plants about 4 ft tall now and the pollen it throws out from the flowers when i touch it with my fingers is amazing.

Im Don't know much when it comes to genetics of peppers , but here is 2 pics of pods from the same plant , its a moruga thats throwing out some pods that look like the red pod and some pods that kinda look like a moruga top with a huge stinger tail , Its funny because the pods that have taken on the red pods shape are all starting to ripen up first and the ones with the tail havnt started to ripen yet there all still growing. im going to collect seeds from both and keep the seperated and grow out next season, any ideas as to what this plant maybe has been crossed with , could it be a moruga x primo ??

Clone that raping bugger!!! NOW!!!

 

[pepperproblem]

Agreed. Clone it, and save seeds.

 

[patrick]

Dulac thanks for that info.

You say to choose your seeds based on the plant, not the pod. But it's not the plant I want to reproduce, it's the pods on it. How do you choose which plant to take seeds from if you want specific shaped pods?